Drew Cummins: From Assistant Editor to Creative Agency Owner

Justin Levinson (00:01.005)
Hey there everybody, welcome to the Agency Side podcast. Today I'm here with Drew Cummins, who is the owner of ScreenLand Creative, which is an amazing theatrical marketing agency, and we're so happy to have him here today. Great to be with you, Drew.‍

Drew Cummins (00:15.65)
Great to be here. Thank you for having me. This is fun.

Justin Levinson (00:17.601)
Yeah, yeah, I'm excited to dig into your story a little bit and see how you got here today. What kind of got you into this particular space?

Drew Cummins (00:29.966)
I mean, way back, way back in 2000, I was thinking I was gonna be an architect and then I found editing and then became an assistant editor, because I knew how to make computers work. So, and then it's been just a crazy road of different shops, both agency side, most of my career has been agency side as an assistant editor to

an editor to a producer, creative director, and then kind of running more of the running of shops and producing and kind of more of the leadership role. I was also at Universal as a client side for a while and then was back on agency side and during COVID, a very

Drew Cummins (01:30.222)
opportunity came up to take Screenland basically out of the BLT world where we kind of were set up shop kind of independently. We weren't 100%. We were two different companies, BLT AV versus BLT, but due to the changes in the industry and due to COVID and due to just the kind of some overall changes between BLT and BLT AV, the team that we had for the last five years

before that, we were able to just kind of spin off into Screenland without any changes to the clients. It was still the same core team. And besides the headache of the name change itself, both with clients and with the IRS and billing departments at studios, other than that, it was truly kind of seamless in that way and really kind of set us up for success.

until the strikes hit and then, you know, and then the fun of the strikes that we all know about, but, you know, now it's back up and running and, you know, we never shut down, but basically the industry's hopefully back up and running and hopefully avoiding any other strikes. So.

Justin Levinson (02:31.245)
Yeah.

Justin Levinson (02:50.115)
Totally. I'm hopeful that the scale is leveling out and getting better. Interesting how you started out as an assistant editor and kind of worked your way up to being an agency owner. I guess maybe you can walk me through a little bit how you got from step to step here because I know that, I talk to a lot of people in this industry all the time and I think a lot of times somebody who is like an assistant editor might kind of feel

you know, how do I how do I get there? Like, how do I become an agency owner? What were some of the things that sort of maybe that you did that that that you felt stood out that sort of, you know, kept your your growth in this industry?

Drew Cummins (03:36.062)
I think one of the key components and it's what I think makes great creatives and I think it makes great, you know, just kind of anyone is just kind of problem solving. was a, you know, from the outset as an assistant editor, you know, was kind of problem solving, working hard to figure out whatever that problem was that we were working on.

I think that really helped me solidify my place inside of a really small company at the time, being willing and being very proactive to jump into situations and try to take things off of other people's plates to free them up to do whatever their job above me was. I got very good advice early on.

Drew Cummins (04:33.47)
from kind of a mentor, one of my first employers on more the post side of things. It wasn't trailer, but it was post and it was setting up AVIDs and helping people kind of basically do assistant work. So, but he was, when I was looking at which agency to go to as an assistant, as he closed up, he was like, well, a smaller shop will give you more opportunities to wear more hats and to do

And I think that was a real key piece of advice going to a tiny shop back in the day called Flash Frame. Shout out to David Freeman and Brad Savage. Really, really great run. had a great time. And yeah, I think it was just about finding those ways to really kind of solve the problems that made it easy to keep me employed and really help.

But also, I think it was just about hustle and the want to do and go the extra mile. As I was an assistant, was cutting. I was cutting on the side, trying stuff, doing side projects for people, like small indie projects. Just, again, anything to cut my teeth and to really get in there. I know the industry's definitely changed.

in a lot of ways, but I still think that is, that's more work ethic and problem solving. And I kind of looked at my biggest problem was I needed to make more money. so it was, okay, assistant editor made me more money than I was making before. And then when I was an assistant editor, was like, I was hearing what the editors were making and it was a, okay, how do I get there? And how do I do this? How do I learn this storytelling? And

And it was just digging through the timelines of the editors, kind of just really immersing myself into that. you know, it kind of reminds me talking to Chad Miller, AV Squad, and him saying, like, he would just, like, study trailers and just watch and watch and watch. you know, being an assistant editor really is an opportunity to do that as well. So.

Drew Cummins (06:57.342)
And then from there, it was kind of a similar thing. It was different at that point. Once I became an editor, it was more about kind of finding the shop that was the right fit, but also knowing what my strengths and what I was really liking were. I felt like I was a very proficient.

and good editor and I have some good stuff on my reel and I still get in there to rough stuff out. But for the most part, I also really liked solving the problem. Like if the copy didn't work, I would always rewrite the copy and like Jason Chappelle would always give me shit for like, every time I give you a copy, you totally change it, but then the spot works. So what am I going to do? And that was at Buddha when I was still cutting. And so, I just like to really

Justin Levinson (07:46.605)
You

Drew Cummins (07:54.43)
solve the problems and find these things. And so that kind of started gravitating more into kind of producing. at Buddha, they gave me a couple opportunities to oversee some stuff. think it was just people were busy and it was kind of like...

Drew seems like he can talk to some of the younger guys working on this campaign. And so that was kind of cool. And then I had a great opportunity when Jackson went over to Overture and my good friend, Todd Phillips moved up at NSYNC. He brought me in as an editor slash kind of creative director. And that really started my first chops of really producing. again, it's like, it

I just kind of felt like I gravitated a little bit more towards that. Like I really liked the creative, but I liked, you know, producing and writing and breaking down the movie and figuring it out and working with the different editors and like, that's really great. We had this other thing a while ago. What if we do this and what if we do that? And then, and then, yeah. And then from there, it was just like, I knew I really liked that side of it. And the great opportunity at Universal came

And it was just about, I think it was staying in touch with all the people that I worked with before and making good relationships at every shop I was at and really trying to, those friendships that were built. The reason I got into Universal, I obviously had to interview and meet with Maria and Jackson and everybody, but it was also

great friend Matthew Taller's music supervisor at uni hit me up one day and was like, hey, there's a job. Like you should at least try for it. And so it was just that next like, okay. You know, was having, you know, the guts to I think go after stuff that was a little bit above my pay grade at the time. And then once I was there figuring it out and you know, it wasn't, I had never been.

Drew Cummins (10:07.744)
an executive before at Universal and that, it was so, was kind of a nice way where it was like, you come in as a producer, but now it was way more responsibility running that whole shop. And it was after this really chaotic point. and I think that's, I kind of had a weird thing where it was like after Universal, I went in there and kind of rebuilt it and, kind of fixed a lot of things that were broken. And then now, you know, a lot of that core team is still

I ran into them at lunch a few days ago and I was just like, hey guys. So, and they've been able to build upon that and it's been, you know, really successful and they're doing great. And so then I was kind of recognized as like kind of being able to kind of go in and kind of fix things again. And I think that goes to that problem solving idea. And so was, I had gone to the ant farm to help them rebuild.

And then it was over 4th of July in 2018. And then seven days later, BBDO shut it down. So I literally had gone into the office, I think, two days and they shut it down. So it was the the weirdest job experience I'd ever had. So it was crazy. And so then after that, you know, there was a lot of soul searching and I, we, I ended up back at BLT. I had, I had been there.

Justin Levinson (11:17.725)
man.

Justin Levinson (11:23.149)
is weird.

Drew Cummins (11:33.23)
2004 to 2007 -ish as an editor and came back with the same idea. my mind was kind of like, I'm going to the amp farm to really help them rebuild this. And then BLT was kind of in the same situation with their AV group. I had roots there. I had a lot of friends that had kind of gone through there. They kept having a lot of talent, real great talent come through there and then leave. And it was

I could kind of sense what the issues were even before. so I took it, I was like, okay, yeah, let's do this. And it was first year in, we kind of started fixing some of the broken pieces, getting some people in, going, and then the pandemic struck right when we started. We had Onward come out, we were working on Onward for Jackson and Avi and shut down.

The theater shut down on basically opening weekend or the weekend before. And we had had a great, we'd had success the month, like a month before that with like Jumanji, the second Jumanji sequel coming out with Nick at Sony. And so yeah, we were like, now we're back in theatrical. Here we go. And then, vroom.

pandemic hit and it was again, okay, it's another problem. How do we switch from theatrical and we were doing a lot of Broadway work. How do we go from these two things that are just shut? How do we get into streaming and social and digital? so, I think to answer your question in the most long -winded way, think that work ethic and problem solving are kind of what

would say I've heard said about myself and what I kind of really gravitate towards and I can kind of see why it works. Cause it's like, okay, how do we just break this down? Whatever it is, if it's a create, like a trailer is a problem. It's like, how do we, how do we break this movie down? How do we, you know, every movie, every show, everything has like, it's advantages and disadvantages and how do we just riddle this thing into all advantages? So.

Justin Levinson (13:52.955)
It sounds like, you know, it's sort of like you're destined for this position because from hearing from you, it's like you have like a unique technical mind and creative mind, leadership skills, and you've had the journey from sort of working on both sides, the agency side and the studio side, and you've worked the lowest, you know, lower level positions all the way to the top. So you've seen...

you know, you, I'm sure you can relate to everybody at every different level in the agency. And, and yeah, it just seems like it was cosmic that you're, you're, you're going to end up in the seat that you're in now.

Drew Cummins (14:35.326)
Yeah, I mean, I couldn't go back to a scrappy youth and rocky starts. No idea that I would have ended up here. No idea that I would have even ended up in trailers. It really was kind of moving back to LA and just ending up in the right spot.

right time to hear these things and be like, what is this world? I think nowadays the trailer world is definitely a little bit more known and a little bit more out there. But yeah, having gone through all the sides of it and had success and had failure, it is unique. I think my...

even as a kid on sports teams, it was always like kind of more of a leadership, like, okay, it's like captain of this or, it just kind of always felt like I did like doing that, with, I feel like I've been able to at uni and here at ScreenLand, just really have great.

people around and really enjoy that. I I think that was one of the things that I really liked about working at the smaller shops initially, and even then growing to bigger shops and then at uni was, it's great people. I love the AV side because it's a bunch of, it's a bunch of kind of weirdos coming in from all different angles. And it's like a lot of people from bands. Like, I mean, I see all your music stuff behind you. And it's like, I think,

Justin Levinson (16:21.025)
I'm one of those weird people.

Drew Cummins (16:23.508)
No, and it's like in music and art school and film school, but also people like me that like I was going to architecture school and didn't really know. But I knew I liked I loved movies. Music was a huge part of my life. I wasn't in bands, but I was always like adjacent to. And so music was such a huge thing. then to be able to like find this thing and have the music that I was into, then kind of be able to use it or be able to just use

Like, I have this like timing thing that I understand. It was like the first time where I was like, I kind of understand this. Like, like it's just been built into me from a kid just listening to so much music. And, and so, yeah, so I think it was, it was a very weird way of like, we all get here, but having those, having that, those differences and having such a great crew of people trying to solve these problems and coming at it in a way of

helping each other. I feel like I've been able to make very lasting relationships that is really great. I I think that that's kind of key in a very small industry is being able to have those relationships and working with teams. We employ an editor now that was

BLTAV when I started and she was my assistant when I was an editor and now she's a kickass editor and she's been for years, but being able to bring her back over here and back into the fold of our crew has been amazing and it's just part of that culture and just kind of just a great feeling, which I think that it's a very stressful, stressful, stressful job on all sides. And so to be able to have it be

a good team and a good crew of people is really key. And I think that that's where, you know, everybody fits into different shops differently. And I think that some people, some like one person can succeed and really feel great one place and not feel perfect at another. And so people move around and they kind of find that vibe that really works. And so it's cool. mean, I really, I really like it. And I am very grateful that

Drew Cummins (18:51.274)
we, I got to this place and it did work out because it was, you know, who knows if, who knows if COVID didn't happen then like this opportunity between with my partners and being able to buy them out doesn't happen or it happens way further down the line and maybe something else happens in this and that. I mean it really, some of it is just kind of who knows, it's kind of just what happens but.

Justin Levinson (19:18.551)
Yeah, what was sort of, you know, when you became Screenland Creative just on your own, what was sort of going through your mind when you got that opportunity? Obviously, you had previous relationships, you've done this before, you know, it wasn't like your first rodeo, but were you a little bit nervous about it when it was going through your mind?

Drew Cummins (19:44.076)
I mean, I'm still nervous. It's like every day I'm just like, it's just constant panic. But I think, you know, it's a huge shout out to our crew because like, I don't know if I would have been, if somebody came up to me on the street and said, do you want to start a shop? And it was starting from complete scratch. It would have been a different story than what we did. We were able to take, you know,

BLT print and BLT AV were already two separate companies. And so I was able, I was already a partner at BLT AV. And so taking that, and it was an existing company with a fantastic crew and the partners, my partners, you know, weren't really involved. So it was truly, we had, as the AV side had already, you know, talked about and joked about and they had, you

based on some decisions that had been made on the bigger side. It was like, why don't we just go out on our own, this and that. And it was like, well, there's money and this and that. But truly, the one thing I didn't worry about was the team. And that was such a huge relief because, know, Aura, Bill, Adam, Jeremy, Lauren, Steve, it's like everybody we had, Christine, Peter, it's like we just had.

everything ready to go. It was really just like meeting with them and saying like, I'm making this decision, but I can't do it without you guys. And it's a big risk. I'm, you know, there's a lot of money involved and you know, it will be a name change. And so we'll have to go after the clients and do all of this. But it was pretty, it was pretty seamless in how it happened because we were able to transition.

from BLTAV into ScreenLand kind of in a slow way and kind of let it happen. And I think there's still a lot of PR work that I need to do and get out there for meetings that I'm too busy in the Bay doing the creative on, but we're also growing so that I can have more time to do that. But yeah, I think that the nervous things for me were just like keeping the clients happy.

Drew Cummins (22:06.614)
and not having any bumps happen. And that meant keeping my team happy and making sure that like shit that I'd never dealt with before, like making sure the health insurance and the 401ks transitioned properly. And, know, big shout out to my CFO, Dave and Diane at BLT and Christine here, like everything happened and it's like, it took a lot of work and it, you know, it was just

But also for me, it was exciting because it was yet a new challenge, a new thing to unlock, a just a new problem to solve. And so we were able to kind of go at it that way. And we had our great Hulu clients still jamming with us. And ever since we've been expanding back into, now that the theaters are open, expanding back into theatrical. And we've been doing a lot of that now. And

again, it's always been this like, when one thing changes, we got to figure it out and get that next thing. And so we've been very, we've been very nimble. And I think being small has been very key to that. You know, it's like, know, I know for my sanity and my health and my and the company's growth for efficiency, we need to grow. So, so there is more support. And we are bringing in some, you know, some really talented people as that as a layer

Justin Levinson (23:15.821)
Yeah.

Drew Cummins (23:32.51)
know, producing help and other things so that there's more time to go after more work, make sure that the shop is running right and everybody's happy and nobody's gonna keel over and have a heart attack because they're working too hard.

Justin Levinson (23:47.011)
Do you have a favorite campaign that you've worked on?

Drew Cummins (23:53.878)
I will say the one, I mean, it's.

Justin Levinson (23:56.727)
Probably a lot.

Drew Cummins (23:58.444)
I mean, I've worked, you know, it's like so many like back early on in the days of like me as an editor, like, and at a small company, we had the chance to work on a ton of just super comedies in a row, Anchorman, Old School, and it was all with David Sammoth. And they were just so fun to work on as an editor. I mean, it was just like endless jokes and it was so much fun.

You know, and then like Tropic Thunder when I was at Buddha, you know, it's as an editor, they were always this like, OK, solving these problems, this and that. I there was one with Jackson. I can't even remember what the movie was called. I just remember it as old people walking in London. It's just it was Dustin Hoffman as like a bad dad, like going to a wedding of his daughter in England. And I was able to use a music cue in the back end

was very much like cool kid music, hipster song in the back end, and Jackson was just like, yes, this is great. And it was like, that was really cool. Having the campaigns where you really kind of solve that problem. again, it's like, you've solved it. And it's like, this now works. But recently for us, I mean, for us, it was really great.

you know, getting back into theatrical and onward and Jumanji, those were super fun. like recently, you know, it's like the team. I think it's like at every level, it's different, like as an AE, I remember having stuff that was a thing and as an editor and then as a producer. And then now it's really like seeing kind of how the team coalesced and how they operated and how they got stuff done and were able to manage. You know, we're a small shop, but we work on we work on both like

very small to very big stuff and like Bad Boys 4, like that was huge. you know, the team, was, you know, some days it was like every editor cranking, you know, it was just like six people just editing, two producers, myself, graphics, everybody just going while also having the bear, Comet on Shadow, you know, it's like, we really went through this like crazy push earlier this year

Drew Cummins (26:22.496)
with, you know, and the bear was to work on the bear. mean, just to work on the bear. That's it. It's like, thank you, Paul Rollins. Thank you, Amy. Like to work on the bear. Amazing. But for me as a producer, as a company owner, I'm like, holy shit, so prestigious, so cool. As a producer, it was the first time that I sat in a bay with an editor basically every day, weekends, weeks for like a month.

Cause it was like, when we finally got the dailies to when the trailer was due was basically a month and a half. And we just cranked and we worked and we worked and we worked. And it was so much fun to be kind of old school making a trailer, just sitting in the bay, like jumping in, looking at something, hearing something from the other room and being like, that's great. Cause this is the first time we've been back in the office. You know, we now have a physical office and we, about half the team is coming

most days so we've got about eight people in the shop and it's just so cool over the last few months that's changing but but yeah i mean some certain times there is a little bit of like i i truly love av squad but they are a bunch of bad asses and so like when we win like we had a campaign and we won it was just like yes but again and i and because i know who we're up against and i know how good they are

Justin Levinson (27:46.507)
Hahaha

Drew Cummins (27:52.328)
It truly is like, that gives me the confidence to keep going and to keep pushing on those. As an agency owner, I think that gives me the confidence to balance the shitty days where it's just like, these budgets, how do we keep this going? How do we figure out the money in this new world? It's definitely a changing world and I think that's the most conversations I've been having with.

other owners, other producers, other people around the industry is just like the changes. I but I do think we're in a unique spot because we're we're not new. And it's not like I'm new to this business, but we are small. We're lean. We're expanding the company in this new era of it. And so like the rules are changing. And so we're trying to figure it out. And we're able to figure it out because we're small and we're lean.

and we scale as we need and we get into different avenues and we have a kick -ass graphics team that does a ton of work as well that kind of does some stuff. we're again, we're scrapping and we're doing it, but it's that balance. like, now as an owner, that has been the biggest thing. It's like trying to find those positive things to just keep going, because it can

you know, pretty brutal when you're just like the stress of just the deadlines, the money, summer vacations. I mean, holy crap, just managing that, you know, and being me and, know, and I'm reaching out to you like, hey, I need help here. And then it changes the next week. I need help here. It's, and that's me vetting those people and this and that. And so that's where it's like, again, knowing where that bandwidth is and trying to find

Justin Levinson (29:34.083)
Totally.

Drew Cummins (29:49.625)
that I think will help increase our efficiency across the board so that we can, you know, again, it all better serves the client, better serves the staff here. So they're not working late because I was busy during the day and this and that. it's just, you know, again, it's just trying to keep the clients happy, the staff happy.

And it's, you know, it's just been, but it has been a struggle. It's been a

Justin Levinson (30:20.447)
Yeah, think that it's very, you know, what you're saying is very similar to, know, lots of agency owners in, in, in actually all, all parts of, you know, advertising services in general. I work with people in brand gaming. You're actually the first person I've spoken with that's in theatrical marketing. We've, we've speaking mostly people in brand. So it's exciting to, to hear all these great movies and everything that you, that you guys have worked on.

And yeah, scaling seems to be a tricky thing. Everyone wants to be able to keep their core people together, but it's also important to have a deep bench. So when needs come quickly, you got people in your network that can kind of jump in there and take the reins. And it can be tricky, because it's like everybody kind of needs the freelance pool at the same time. And it becomes a quick race to getting everybody put in the place where they need to be.

so.

Drew Cummins (31:19.97)
Yeah, you're kind of constantly faced with like, like I'm in this position today. It's like, okay, do I, do I pull the plug today on that freelancer who I love? Because, you know, we have enough bandwidth now with the internal crew, but they might be good for this other thing that I think might be coming in a week or two. But if I let them go, then they're gone

So again, it's just that constant, like there's just so many levels of the dials. And I think that that's stuff that every agency owner has to do. just think in the past, there was, you know, back in the aughts when there was just more money and there was more ways to do maybe like home entertainment balancing out theatrical. And like there was just a little bit more of the budget openness. And now with everything being so, I mean, even

Justin Levinson (31:54.051)
Totally.

Justin Levinson (32:02.819)
Totally.

Drew Cummins (32:16.248)
dealing with budgets now is, you know, takes time and money and you're like, I don't have time for this. But it really is. it's such a weird thing as we move into this new era of the new budgets and the new this and the new that. And we're trying to figure it out as agencies. It's also how do you know? Yeah. How do you do it? Is it freelancers? Is it everybody? But everybody's fighting for the same resources at that point. And then it gets it's tough.

Justin Levinson (32:21.943)
Totally.

Justin Levinson (32:44.223)
Is there a new way that you see any like goals or new ways you see doing things in the near future or directions you see yourself going?

Drew Cummins (32:53.846)
Well, I think it's super, I think I'm in a weird spot to answer that somewhat because it's like I don't have the experience as like, let's say, John Long at Buddha doing this forever. And like, he could be like, this is how we've done things for so long. then, okay, things are shifting. So we're gonna think about this. And like, he's in that company is at a place where they can really like forecast.

You know, for us, like having made our last payment to BLTs, literally the day of the strikes happening, it's like, okay. And then, and so we basically own the company or I own the company outright, right into the strikes. It's like all those thoughts of like, okay, here we go. We're put on hold. And now we're at that point where we should have been a year ago. And so I don't know if I have.

And I'm new. I haven't done this before. a, this is like, ran uni in -house, but that was kind of funny money. It's not, you're, it's like, yes, you have to meet budgets and you have to make sure that you're not costing the company, but that's a cost savings department versus a cost generating or a revenue generating. So it's a, it's a totally different mindset. And even at AV squad being in on the budgets and being at

AV before there was kind of a layer of finance departments and forecasting because we had this bigger bank account to ride on if we had a down month. so all of these things. I'm really learning, you know, again, like I said, part of it is having I'm definitely not a risk taker. I mean, I am in a way, but I know my limit. was like back in the day when I was snowboarding. Moved Mammoth.

kind of quickly understood that my level of like, okay, I'm sponsored, but I'm not gonna go wherever, where these other folks are going. I could see where, and it was because I knew I wasn't willing to take 100 % risk that could end in complete failures, AKA death. And that's the same, like it's a different world. I was able to say like, this is a measured risk to take BLT.

Justin Levinson (35:07.489)
Yeah.

Drew Cummins (35:19.114)
not private, but away and take it on my own because I knew it had been working because I'd been working it. And so I and I knew the players to do it. It wasn't a it was like kind of a it was it was like wading into the water versus jumping into the middle of the ocean as like a entrepreneur agency owner. So but I do, you know, to answer your question moving forward. Yeah, I think there's going to be I think there's going to be a lot of changes. I don't know.

what they are, it's, know, there's like, grandson had the whole thing where it's like, there's no OT. There's this, there's that. Agencies are making moves and making changes. And I think the, you know, I think the smaller shops will need to make them before the bigger shops just because of cashflow and the bigger shops, you know, have those, have the engines that just kind of keep things going for a little bit longer, but

I know that everybody's talking about it. And so it's how those things are kind of sorted out. It's like, do, you know, there's things that I'm talking about and it's like, you know, we'll see with different people and it's like, we'll see what kind of happens on that. But it is a weird time and it's tough.

Justin Levinson (36:40.097)
Is there any technology that you've been using, any new sort of things that have been helpful or like collaborative things for teams in terms of working that you found good?

Drew Cummins (36:51.734)
Well, I mean, I hate Teams, but we use it because it's part of our Microsoft package, but so it's free ish. But yeah, I mean, we we at BLT when I first went back, the infrastructure technology wise was basically Stone Age. You know, they had been kind of just keeping this thing going for a long time. And luckily, right before the pandemic, we had to buy a new server. So we had that already in the works. And then that allowed us to then.

Justin Levinson (36:57.837)
Yeah

Drew Cummins (37:20.512)
once the pandemic started to go and then once we moved into our new office, we really hit the ground running with top of the line infrastructure, know, Teradici, all the production machines were TPN Gold, doing all the stuff that costs way too much money to work on these movies with the budgets that are so scrutinized, which I think is also another issue with the world we're in right now. It's like you pay so much to play and how does that then pay you back when

Justin Levinson (37:45.219)
Totally.

Drew Cummins (37:50.028)
you know, there's just no budget to cover it. So, you know, I think there's that, but I think that it really has made it amazing. you know, like I said, a lot of people are coming into the office, but at a certain point during the day, we can bounce home and like hop on a production machine and through Teradici. And, you know, I know some people had it right out of the gate through COVID and they've, they're so, you know, there's many more years into it, but for us

it's been game changing and then just constantly tasking certain people of the same mindset on our staff that are real like super tech and super like, if this isn't working, there's gotta be something else. And so we recently switched from Evercast to another service called Looper. And that was huge. mean, fraction of the cost

so much easier to use. Like it was a huge change for us. It was just like, okay, great. Now we can take that money for Evercast. And we weren't using it because it was such, for us personally, was too much of a headache. It's like some of my editors are not super tech savvy. And so to them, it was just like, what's happening? And graphics was just like, what are we talking about? Looper?

Justin Levinson (39:09.709)
Totally.

Drew Cummins (39:14.666)
Everybody's up on it super easy. That's been hugely helpful. know, everything else, everything else is, the, you know, the one, the one thing that I think has been super helpful, it's not perfect as just the, the auto transcript inside of premiere, being able to pull an auto transcript from, from whatever show or movie. And then instead of having to have people not only transcribe

and then perfect it. It's like somebody can pull that and then quickly like, okay, go through it and watch and just correct it. And it just, it sped up the transcription process a lot. And that was something that was always helpful. But then at AV squad, when I was there, it was one of the things that I really was like, this is amazing, especially for me, who's as a producer, I'm constantly looking

cobble the lines and figure out how we can tell that story that's needed that isn't in the movie that's not, the, you know, like what joke could cobble with this and needing the line and this and that. So I think that was, that's, that's super helpful. And then, you know, everything else is, you know, pretty much the same. That's like, you know, we're still reaching out for music, doing this and that, you know,

The custom house is doing all the custom work on music is from my day editing is such a different thing. And then even my like middle ground of producing was more like overlays and like sections and this and that. And the editor's kind of playing with stems. And now it's just like bonkers, you know, and it's just like, got

as a producer, have to like get the story going and get the music going even before. And so much of the times I feel like the music is found as you're working. It's like as an editor, I would be like, I hate this cue now. Try something else for a while and be like, OK, I'm going to go back. No, actually this thing and constantly looking and constantly trying to better it and better it and better it. you know, on the other hand, I do think that it is great because like the

Drew Cummins (41:24.354)
the custom houses and all the music houses can take something that you might've kind of thrown away and like really elevate it and make it something that you can really just go create a whole piece around this lyric that you were like, I love this lyric, but the music just doesn't work. And nowadays you can.

Justin Levinson (41:42.167)
Are there some go -to places that you like that can kind of do that sort of thing these days?

Drew Cummins (41:48.662)
I mean, we work with so many people, like, you know, we do, and I'll probably forget somebody, but you know, right now on a campaign, we have Crystal Creative, on another we have Hit House Ghostwriter, and...

Drew Cummins (42:08.81)
I'm gonna forget the name. I'll have to remember they were great. And then on something else we had Totem. on the bear we had Totem. And so, yes,

Justin Levinson (42:27.137)
And so you're able to give these folks like a basically a rough idea of what you're hearing, what you want, and then they can just expand it, orchestrate it, make

Drew Cummins (42:38.7)
I think it kind of depends on who we're working with. It depends on the campaign. mean, altogether what's happening at that moment. for this newest thing, we just started like pulling song ideas. It was just like, let's do this one and this one and send them to two different spots and alloy tracks finally hit

The A kept going to alibi, you know, and then, and I'm getting close to seniorness. So it's like, here we go. And then score a score is awesome, Jamie and Kristen Tollhurst are great. And so we use them as well. But yeah, so like on a campaign where we have to start early, cause it's just like we know.

Justin Levinson (43:11.639)
Dude, I am the king of senior moments, so no...

Drew Cummins (43:34.838)
Our deadlines are tight and we just have to pick a song and we're just going to start cutting and using whatever version of the song. Like let's say there's another trailerized version out there, but we want to do something different or take it a different direction from more like action to warm or from warm to action. You know, we either go back to that same place that exists and do that, or if it is a fully new thing, we'll go out and say, here's the cue.

do your thing, this is what we wanna do, we wanna kinda have it be similar to this and big drums and then, then. But then on others like the Bear, we had already kind of roughed out a lot of the stuff. And so was this back and forth of like, this is kind of the original song cut in, but can you then take it and just kind of make it different? And so they did that. Other campaigns.

Drew Cummins (44:30.498)
Ghost Rider on this crazy thing Hulu did with Baz Lerman's Australia where they took it and made it into a six part mini series. And it was kind of Baz's like, you know, Baz's kind of just pet project that I think he just was into. So it was like using his music and using this and using that. And so like being able to take some of the pieces and just create this whole score and feeling.

and Brian did a great job on that, but that was like more collaborative where it's like, or not more collaborative, because all very collaborative, but it's like we had just like a piece here and a piece there. And it's like the rest we have to fill and like, how do we kind of then make it all smooth and flowy? And, you know, that's really the thing. It's like, how do we just make these things just feel effortless and like they just flow? And I think that's where

For me, it was always scary as a producer. was another level of like, crap, not only do I got to deal with listening to cues and I got to music direct this music house and then give notes and try it for me. As like I said, I'm very music -based. mean, it was my whole life as a younger person going to shows and seeing music, but

putting that into words and giving direction, that was a very scary thing, but it was that like, you know, having better people around, like, Aura's good to talk about music and she's gonna give her notes and then I'm gonna learn these terms and learning from, you know, Angel, who I grew up with at AV Squad and kind of hearing him talk to his vendors and talking to the houses, it's like, okay, I'm kind of starting to get

And it was again, kind of learning from really good people. Matthew Tolhurst, like he was always like picking up on the words and the kind of how they categorize music and what things are and this and that. And it's been an interesting new world of that for me personally, just cause like I said, as an editor, was just like cues and that's it. And then like sometimes you would hire somebody to score something if they didn't want to pay for the song and do a

Justin Levinson (46:51.651)
Totally. Well, I guess last question for you. Obviously you do some snowboarding and I will. Do you still snowboard?

Drew Cummins (46:52.863)
So.

Drew Cummins (46:59.836)
yeah.

If you know, last year I did not go for the first time ever. And it's due to mostly the company being a new shop owner and not having the money to pay for this now, which I really, and I could do a whole podcast on how angry it makes me that it's become such

unaccessible sport at this point, you know, as opposed to being able to like scrap some money together and then on the weekend drive up to Big Bear. Both days, you know, back and forth, both days, gas and this, was all much more, much more affordable and but yeah, I still do. It's just and I love it when I do, it's just really hard to to find time.

Justin Levinson (47:30.691)
Totally.

Justin Levinson (47:55.117)
Yeah, well, if you ever happen to be in the Green Mountain State here, where I hail from now, and you wanna put on your snowboard, come join me. I am not a good snowboarder. You'd probably make me look really bad out there considering it sounds like you had a decent career at it, but I can get down the hill usually without falling too much and would happy to entertain you down here, up here.

Drew Cummins (48:13.826)
There you go. part of the fun now is like at the bottom of the mountain. Take a couple runs, go have a beer. It's like, it's what happens as you get older and like, and as my kids get older, I'm looking forward to them, whether they want to or not, but at least if they are in it, like my oldest daughter, she does like doing it. My younger is like, eh, just like my wife is like, meh.

Justin Levinson (48:25.133)
Totally.

Drew Cummins (48:41.826)
But yeah, I will happily come out there. The only time I've ever tried to ski on the East Coast was in Maine where my wife is now and is from. I was going up with our good friend Colin in my mother -in -law's Volvo and it started dumping and we were gonna go, I can't even remember where we gonna go, like maybe Sunday River if that's the thing right there, but we were gonna go and the all wheel steering and the anti -lock.

or the anti -slide went out. And so we were kind of in the middle, we like an hour outside of Portland and the car was just like swerving everywhere. So we just had to pull over. So truly I've never skied anywhere east of Utah. And that's also a great one. We should meet in Utah because Utah is fantastic. So,

Justin Levinson (49:33.453)
Perfect, right in the middle.

Cool. Yeah, man. Well, I sincerely mean it. Hope maybe we'll get to hit the mountain sometime, but...

Drew Cummins (49:42.668)
Yeah, I would love to. went to Stowe in the summer though. Beautiful.

Justin Levinson (49:47.715)
Yep, beautiful out there. Any all seasons? Yep. Yeah, that's maybe 45 minutes from me. So. But yeah, man, really appreciate the time and hearing some of your insights. And yeah, man, I'm excited to keep following the work you guys are doing. And yeah, have a have a great rest of your week. Yeah, thanks so much, Drew.

Drew Cummins (50:03.064)
Thank you for having me. This has been a pleasure and always fun to talk about this crazy world we chose to get involved with. So appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. A follow -up of, you know, I'll be balder and older and we'll see. Yeah. Okay, Justin. You too, Bye.

Justin Levinson (50:13.613)
Totally. Yeah, I would love to have you back sometime, man. So, yeah.

Justin Levinson (50:20.579)
I will be too. Cool, man. Well, have a good day. Appreciate it, Bye.

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