Experiential Marketing Insights with MC²’s Ben Nazario

Justin Levinson (00:10)‍

Hey everybody, welcome to the Agency Side Podcast. My name is Justin Levinson. And today we're joined with one of the experiential industry's top leaders, Ben Nazzario. Ben is the chief growth officer at MC Squared where he helps guide the agency's strategy, partnerships and expansion across the experiential and events world. He's collaborated with some of the biggest brands on the planet, Google, Pinterest, Hire, Viacom, Aristocrat, Konami Gaming, Intel, Salesforce and more. Helping them show up on major global stages through immersive, high impact brand experiences.

Thanks so much for being here today, Ben. It's great to chat with you.

‍

Ben Nazario (00:42)

Hey, nice to be here, Justin. That sounded like a lot. Wow, that's a lot of work. I'm tired.

‍

Justin Levinson (00:47)

It ⁓ was a tongue twister, but I got through it. But yeah, man, the first thing I like to just get into with all the guests on the show is just a little bit about your origin story. How did you get into this particular industry?

‍

Ben Nazario (00:59)

Sure, you know, I'm sure as other guests have talked about, know, this really wasn't something that you thought about when you were growing up or when you were in high school or even in college. Oh, I think I want to be in the event, the experiential event business. know, and it usually, you stumbled into it somehow, some way. No exception, you know, that's something that's a pretty good story. I'm gonna give you the short version of it. I'm gonna give you the longer version, because that one requires a beer in our hand to talk about.

I think, you one of the things to mention is I ran into someone while I was at an event with, when I was a junior and I was a freshman in college and I went to a family event and I ran into someone who was in the industry. And it's funny, but the person that invited me to that event, she said to me, the one thing I want you to do is to stay away from this person, Ralph. Stay away from Ralph. We don't know what he does.

He travels. We don't know what's going on with him, but stay away from him. So of course the first person I walk up to when I get to the event is of course Ralph, right? So, hey, I'm a Ralph. So I spent the next two hours with Ralph that evening and he offered me an opportunity to interview on that following Monday, the start of Friday. He says, you looking for a job? I said, yeah, I'm looking for a job. So he said, my card.

And he said, meet me Monday at seven. I'm like, okay, seven a.m. He was like, no, seven p.m. I'm like, okay. So seven p.m. I went into this warehouse area in Long Island City, New York and took an elevator up. It's kind of mysterious feeling, you know? And the door opened up in the elevator and it was like Grand Central. mean, bright lights, machines, cutting wood. There was people running around. was all, it was activity.

You know, receptionist says, hey, you waiting for Ralph? Okay, sit here. And Ralph comes out of the conference room, hey, man, I'll be right back. You know, so it was this whole activity thing. That was my first introduction into this, you know, the trade show event, experiential industry. They were preparing for a big pitch for the next day. And they were in the process of putting that whole thing together. And so it was really exciting to watch that happen. He hired me that day, that night.

And I started working at this small exhibit agency. And that's where I started and that's where it just sort of rambled from there. I learned a lot because of that. I learned a lot of different things that I would not have if I had come in a different way. I came in at a certain level, so I had to understand almost everything. Reading blueprints and just understanding how things are built and timelines. And so I learned a tremendous amount. was definitely...

Definitely my bootcamp. So that's where it started and I wound up in a really great place working with some great brands. I recognized very quickly that this industry was different and it was special. And as I started to spend time with some of the salespeople there, I realized that it was a reap, you'll show what you reap situation. was as much time as you put in, you can get back, you know? And so...

being a underprivileged, broken home Hispanic from Brooklyn, hearing that I can make as much money as I possibly can, no matter what, long as I put the time in, I'm like, okay, sign me up. Right, so, you and I was relatively poor, you know, so I found a place where I knew that I could work hard in Excel, so I made a decision early on that I was not gonna be outworked.

in this industry and that was the work ethic that I started to implement. And that's the fact, that's the way is in this industry. And this industry, it's not a nine to five, but it also has high reward. So it really propelled me and it helped me to groom myself and then to work with others.

‍

Justin Levinson (05:14)

I'm curious in that first role that you had, it's an interesting experience. What was like, were you like an intern? Were you sort of just like, how did that begin?

‍

Ben Nazario (05:23)

Yeah, it was interesting. I was actually, my first role was code calling. So my first role was actually picking up the phone and I've been doing this for a long time. So we didn't have Google, right? So I was working off of hard copies of information that came from the industry and I was finding the right, the trade show manager, the event manager, the person who was head of marketing or creative and I would make appointments.

for Ralph and also he had me working with architects. So I would go into New York City, I'd pick up a roll of blueprints and I'd bring it back and I'd have to unravel the blueprints and highlight each area of the project. These were big construction projects where the shop could build things. So I had to highlight all of the mill work and then I had to go back and I had to describe it. So I had to describe what the actual piece was. It was a...

the cabinet, plastic laminate, finishing lacquer or whatever, double doors, and I had to put dimensions in. So I basically put a cut sheet together for the estimator. So I learned real fast how to read wood prints, there was a lot of those. and you know, making appointments with people, it got better and better because I understood the business as I started to evolve. So the first few rounds I was not doing well, but then I started to be able to have good conversations with many.

You know, of the things that's funny, a funny story, you know, ⁓ I'm not sure if this is going to make the actual cut of this video, but, know, Ralph felt that I was, because I was speaking to a much older audience, that he wanted to change my persona. So he changed my name and

basically I was an alias. I was a 35 year old man with two kids and one of them get ready to go to college. That was my, because I was speaking to people who were much older than me. And you know, that worked for a little while, it was a little bit, it worked by the way. You know,

I'm not sure if it was necessary, but it did work and it sped up the process. But it was interesting. It was interesting to be able to do that. So I had two names. So I was just showing them to respond to.

‍

Justin Levinson (07:56)

Sometimes

you got to fake it till you make it. I know a thing or two about the cold call thing. It's part of my business too. And it takes guts and not everybody's got it. And you've got to have that confidence and you've got to lead with value and you have to, you got to just say that, hey, I've got a great product for you. I'm the person for this. if you show weakness or you're apologetic, there's a lot of ways that you can find yourself doing poorly.

‍

Ben Nazario (08:20)

Yeah, you know, think the difference is that today, our industry specifically, know, in exhibits, events, experiential, this is a relationship business. This is a trust business, right? That's what this is about. You know, when a brand wants to hire an agency or bring them in to collaborate, there has to be a certain level of trust and there has to be a relationship. And those things just don't happen. They don't happen on a cold call. They don't happen on a text message. It doesn't happen on Snap.

That happens over time of being able to be with someone and spend time with them so they can see what you're about and learn about your company and learn what your values are and trust starts to build. But right now it's 100 % about being able to have some kind of a face-to-face interaction with your clients and with your prospects. Because that's the only way that they're to understand who the real you is. And they're trying to work with you, right? That's critical.

That's the most important parts.

‍

Justin Levinson (09:20)

Totally. Relationships are everything. I 100 % agree. Yeah, a lot of people are trying to automate connections now with, you know, multi-channel reach out campaigns and many other ways, but until you actually sit down with somebody, have a conversation, they get to know you, I still think that's as old as the hills, but it's what sells now too.

‍

Ben Nazario (09:41)

Yeah, yeah. And it's still different if you look at it, just put it on grander scale. During the pandemic, we pivoted to these digital experiences and they worked. For a moment in time, that was good. But you can't replace the interaction, the live interaction that happens at a trade show or at an event is really where the needle moves. So it's critical. And today, most...

Companies and organizations and leaders are looking for a place of community. That's what they're looking for. When they go to a trade show, when they're attending those, they're looking to be with their community and be able to have an interaction. That can't happen in the digital format. Not really, right? That to me is the big thing. That's what people are trying to figure out. Whether it's a proprietary event that you're doing for someone.

or whether it's you're going to a sales conference or a dealer meeting or an experiential pop-up activation or a trade show like CES, that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to create that. That value is in the community with this one-to-one, face-to-face experience that helps to move the needle.

‍

Justin Levinson (10:54)

Yeah. I love that. Are you seeing a lot of trends like, you know, terms of these days or into, into the new year? Is there any sort of like-

‍

Ben Nazario (11:03)

⁓

Yeah, ⁓ what kind of trends are you thinking? What have you seen?

‍

Justin Levinson (11:09)

I mean, I've heard that like pop-ups are very popular now and that it's kind of like the, you know, heard from other people in the industry. But curious if you're seeing the same.

Thanks for tuning in folks. This episode is brought to you by Coming Up Creative, a relationship first boutique creative recruitment agency. We disrupt the creative ecosystem by running sophisticated multi-channel campaigns with custom video and voice outreach that actually gets responses. We actively market the agencies and brands we represent to help them stand out to today's industry's top talent, all backed by real human connection and AI powered targeting. If you're ready for a modern recruitment approach,

visit www.comingupllc.com and get started today.

‍

Ben Nazario (11:54)

think

one of the things you'll see, this isn't necessarily new, but I think it's something that you're gonna see more of is some of the larger brands are going to rethink their participation at large scale trade shows in that they might do better doing something more private or exclusive or invitation only.

and not be on a trade show floor with the masses, but maybe take on really lean into that ⁓ to try to get a ⁓ higher return and also to be able to measure a little bit more. ⁓ Listen, know, if you go to CES and you're going to go to see all these products, you can see all these products online. Almost all of them, right?

You know, where's the value? so, you know, so now, now there are some exclusives, there are some new products, there are some behind the wall things you can't see. So maybe that's where the, you know, and there's areas where our only, only press are invited and only influencer are invited. Only creators are invited. That's that you're going to see more of that, I believe.

as the year starts to unravel because it's a better use of their dollars. I'm not sure that they're gonna spend any less, but I think they're gonna be able to be more focused on what that relationship experience looks like and who they have coming to see them in their space. That's something that I feel strongly you're gonna see that. You'll definitely see that at CES. I know that for a fact. So you'll see that there, but I think that's certainly something you'll see more and more of.

‍

Justin Levinson (13:44)

Fascinating. Maybe you could tell me a little bit about what makes up the team at MC square. Like what, type of roles are within your ecosystem?

‍

Ben Nazario (13:51)

Sure. So in my, on the growth team, which is the group that I oversee, we have ambassadors or the frontline, as I call them. They're the folks that are speaking to existing clients and also trying to speak to new prospects and trying to build relationships for the future. Those are the folks. But then there's also the creative team that helps come up with what the story needs to feel like and look like. There's designers on our organization that do the actual 2D design of what we're going to be putting together.

And then there's the entire backend of carpenters and of the graphic producers, engineers, the project managers. There's a whole army of those in different locations at MC Squares. So we have seven facilities in the U.S. and they all have those different types of roles within those locations. And they're all required to help execute for our clients.

Now more and more, we also have our digital teams. have digital folks that are now working on programs as they develop because now the stories are being told in a digital format. That's part of the process. That's part of what the experience wants to be. So we have those folks on staff and also the strategy team. So the strategy team is necessary more so for some of the larger brands that want us to help them figure out how they should be telling their message and how they should be engaging. That exists at MCSquid as well.

It takes a village. really, really doesn't. have that village. We also produce proprietary events. So there's a team in St. Louis and in Atlanta that just work on proprietary programs, keynotes, breakout sessions, expo halls, that whole area is a whole separate entity. And then there's the permanent environment group. This is a group that builds permanent spaces like executive briefing centers, retail spaces, showrooms, build-ups for corporate brands, hospital like Las Vegas Convention Center.

We'll have an area being built out or casinos have areas like a high roller lounge. So that's a whole permanent section. A lot going on. lot happening. On top of that, produce festivals, right? So we produce Art Basel. Art Basel is one of the largest art festival fairs in the world. And so our parent company, MCH, owns the intellectual property for Art Basel. So we have produced Art Basel in five locations globally. And Miami is coming up in December.

‍

Justin Levinson (16:15)

You got a cool job, man. It's a cool job. I imagine when people ask you what you do and you can, it's got to feel like I've got probably the coolest job in the room.

‍

Ben Nazario (16:22)

Yeah, you know, it's funny, we don't even say, I don't even tell them. It's just like, yeah, I I travel. I say, you know, so, you know, it's one of those things. You know, the industry itself, what's cool about it is that there's different facets that you can participate in, right? So I have, my kids are all for better or worse around this industry. You know, as much as I advise them.

not to be in the industry. I advise them to be on the brand side. Nope, don't be on the agency side, of course. My son is a producer. He went to Rutgers Field. He has his own agency and he is a producer. So he has, he's an agency. So, you know, my daughter is a journalism major at Seton Hall. What does she wind up doing? She's a senior project manager for an agency doing product launches for pharmaceutical brands.

My other daughter was at Drexel, she's a graphic designer. Where is she now? She's an art director at a brand agency in Philly. So it's like, guys, you didn't listen. know, what's the brand side? I have one left and she's at Clemson and so she's a communications major, PR major. So we'll see, hopefully she can get into a brand and not go into this agency world. It's a hard world. This is not, this is as I just interviewed someone earlier today.

You know, is not, work-life balance is not a good topic in our space. It's really, really difficult.

‍

Justin Levinson (17:57)

This kind of work has to be in your DNA and it's, late hours, but it comes with a lot of really cool things too. I mean, it comes with diversity. And there's a personality for it too. know, just me as a person, I'm, I am programmed to work 80 hours a week. I don't know if it's healthy. I don't part, don't partake in vices or other things, but work is sort of my vice. I think I'm, I'm programmed for it. I think I, I meet people when I'm, when I'm

recruiting in this space where you can tell if they're telling me like, I'm really looking for a great work life balance. Like I'm really working too hard here. It's like, I'm already, I already know this person is probably not going to be a fit for it. And it's tricky to get people from brand studio side to come to an agency because it's just a whole different thing. But I find that people on both sides are always, they're always looking to get to the other side. So agency people are always like, I want to go to brands I want to get, but then the brand people are like, I'm getting

I'm getting tired of working on the same thing. want some diverse clients. I want to something new. I want to grow. want this. So you find that the grass is always greener on the other side. But as my grandfather said, it's always the same brown crap that grows everywhere.

‍

Ben Nazario (19:06)

You're right. I do think grass is green on the brand side, but yeah, you're right. mean, it's, you know, it rolls downhill as they say, right? So I think, you know, you, when I, when usually when, when someone starts in our organization or even in the industry, if they can survive the first like three years, it's going to, it's probably in their DNA at that point, probably in there, you know, because every day is different. Every project is usually different, you know, there's different challenges. ⁓

there's travel involved, you know, so it becomes something that if you, when you leave this industry and go to some other type of operation job career, you miss it. You're going to miss this. So as much as you complain about it, you're going to miss it, right? That's the way it works. Yeah.

‍

Justin Levinson (19:54)

Yeah.

I imagine you look, are you guys have events producers too? Imagine that's, that's part of it as well.

‍

Ben Nazario (20:00)

We do, have producers and line producers. Yep, you bet.

‍

Justin Levinson (20:05)

Yeah. I imagine that you have to look for people that also have some, have a bit of like quick thinking and flexibility and be able to kind of call an audible when there, it needs to be. Cause I imagine this is a space where a lot of things can happen suddenly and you need to kind of adjust.

‍

Ben Nazario (20:22)

Lot of audibles. Every project has, yeah, you've got to be crafty, you've got to be nimble, you've got to be prepared for what's coming. You just don't know what's going to happen. Things happen in this, the event space, you know, so that's why it's so stressful. These things, no matter how much they plan, you know, they get there and all suddenly, holy smokes, now what? You know, so there's a giant column in this space, now what? You know, there's all kinds of things that can happen and...

They're beyond your control. So how do you navigate around that? So that's something that people learn though. They learn along the way pretty quickly. So we have a lot of those folks. They make a big difference. Sometimes it's not about, did anything happen at the event? Sometimes it's about how quickly and efficiently did you rebound and evade? How did that happen? Did that happen quickly, smoothly?

as painlessly as possible financially. So that's important.

‍

Justin Levinson (21:23)

Yeah. Yeah, that's, yeah, I can only imagine what it's like. I know you have limited time, probably we have another eight minutes or so. I want to be mindful of that, but I'm interested in learning a little bit more about your particular, like, it seems like more like the growth accounts team. Maybe you can tell me what that whole ecosystem kind of looks like in terms of like how it functions and how you see, how you quantify growth. Like what does that, what does that sort of look like to someone who might not know?

‍

Ben Nazario (21:51)

Sure, I can give you some of that. can't give you all of it, because that's

‍

Justin Levinson (21:54)

on

the D.I.

‍

Ben Nazario (21:57)

I to kill you.

So our team, we're structured in a manner, as I mentioned, we have professionals that are strategic sales executives that are building relationships around the country. While helping work with some of their key clients and building their base business, they continue to prospect and meet people. And throughout that process, we expect them to also to learn more about the industry.

however that might be, through associations, whatever it might be, but they're always navigating. They're like I said, they're called the front line. They're our ambassadors. They represent our organization and they also represent themselves. the expectations are high. We have high expectations, but they have a really great support team around them. That's the difference, right? Having a full account management team that supports the salesperson is critical.

So we have account managers, have account directors, we have project managers. They all surround the sales executive to manage that piece of business, whether it's an event at South by Southwest, so whether they're doing an activation at F1 or something at Arpozo. There's a team that's doing all the day-to-day coordination, working with the design team, working with the engineers. The sales executive oversees that, but really goes back out and goes to another event.

continue to build relationships. That support system doesn't exist in many agencies, non-leakability. That's a lie. So this is real. That's how we can support them to execute and be efficient. On top of that, there's another group that's called Sales Enablement. The Sales Enablement team helps the strategic sales executive to put together the proposals properly. So the sales executive is fortunate to have a relationship that...

gives them the opportunity to have an RFP, a lot given to them. We take that RFP, the sales enablement team jumps in, like an army jumps in, they grab the RFP, they're ripping apart and they tell the sales executives, stand over there, you're gonna get hurt. And they start to respond to that request for proposal in its entirety. They work with the design team, with the strategy team, with the creative team, with the estimating team. that...

response is basically worked on while this, where does that sales executive go once he drops off the RP? Right back out to go meet some more people, go to a dinner, go somewhere. And so then when they come back and then within a week that response is now given to the sales person and say, here we are, let's talk about it. They can make assessments, but now they're really focusing on their job of building relationships. That's how you build relationships that continue to grow. Otherwise you can't have

the sales executives building relationships if they're working on three different RPs and they're managing an activation for F1. It's impossible.

‍

Justin Levinson (24:52)

I love that sales funnel. I agree. It is a unique thing. mean, some, agencies have their creatives doing all of the business development and account management.

‍

Ben Nazario (24:59)

Who's responding to those questions? mean, there's like 50 questions. Who's answering those questions? Right? So, you know, I think that's important. And listen, it's competitive. Our business is very competitive. Just that's the way it is, you know? And you win some, you lose some. And I think that that's part of this business. A critical part of the business. I'll leave you with one last thing. This is what, this is the people that know me. And if you follow me, you'll hear me say this often.

of my posts in our industry specifically, and I'm sure in others as well, but people buy for three fundamental reasons, right? They buy for very creative, which is critical in our space for a competitive price. You've got to be in the ballpark of the budget and relationship. Relationship is the most important one. The most important one. They're trusting you. They trust you. You've got to be able to work with that prospect or with the marketer.

and be able to understand what they're trying to accomplish in a personal matter and then be able to get these other two right. And that's it. That's it. That's just the, ⁓ I'm squeezing it into this one little box, right? It's more complicated than that. But that is the fundamentals of how it works. know, it's not, you know, we're not splitting atoms here, but it's relationship.

‍

Justin Levinson (26:28)

Yeah, no, I agree with you a hundred percent. I really appreciate you being on the podcast and speaking with us. ⁓ All of my family is from New York and New Jersey. Speaking of you, kind of like my dad or lot of people in my family that have that same New York accent and everything. So it's very familiar to me, even though I'm out here in the sticks in Vermont, we're all, you know, transplants from New York and New Jersey. Yeah, just trying to...

But yeah, man, it's been great to have the conversation. Appreciate all the value and the insights. And I know you're a busy man, so thank you again for being on here today.

‍

Ben Nazario (27:01)

Happy to come back anytime. All the best to you. Much success.

‍

Justin Levinson (27:04)

Awesome man, be well, take care Ben.

‍

Ben Nazario (27:07)

Bye.