Mark McDermott, partner at Amplify, reflects on his path into the creative agency world and emphasizes the role of creativity and culture in shaping how audiences perceive brands. He talks about the challenges of launching a new agency in an unfamiliar market and the importance of taking a diverse approach to business development. Mark also explores the influence of technology on the industry, stressing the need to use it authentically to enhance brand communication. Outside of his professional life, Mark is passionate about collecting records, hosting parties, and skiing.
Partner
Mark McDermott, a partner at Amplify, shares his journey into the creative agency landscape and the importance of creativity and culture in shaping audience perceptions. He discusses the challenges of starting a new agency in a new market and the need for a multifaceted approach to business development. Mark also highlights the impact of technology on the industry and the importance of using technology authentically to add value to brand communication. Outside of work, Mark is an avid record collector, runs parties, and enjoys skiing.
Justin Levinson (00:01.405)
Today I'm excited to be joined by Mark McDermott, a partner at Amplify, a global creative agency known for its work with top brands like Adidas, Airbnb, Google, and Spotify. Named both brand agency, brand experience agency of the decade and global experience agency of the year, Amplify specializes in creating culture and experiences that connect people, brands, and culture. With headquarters in London and hubs worldwide, Amplify's innovative campaigns set them apart as leaders.
in the industry. Mark, welcome to the podcast.
Mark (00:33.33)
Thank you for having me. Very, very honored to be what I think is the first one. yeah, excited to kind of dive into it little bit and appreciate the little intro. Certainly from my perspective, it's been a long time at Amplify, so nice to kind of have someone else parrot back to you what we've managed to achieve in that time. But yeah, really excited to be on the podcast.
Justin Levinson (00:35.781)
Yeah,
Justin Levinson (00:55.985)
Yeah, man. So maybe we can just kick it off with how did you get involved in this creative space?
Mark (01:05.058)
Good question. I actually took quite an unorthodox route into the creative agency landscape as we know it today. I actually studied economics at university at college and felt that that was a route and a career that appealed to me. So when I actually finished university, I ended up working on the trading floor at UBS and ultimately then at Lehman Brothers.
which subsequently collapsed whilst I was there. But that kind of set me on a bit of a path to, I suppose, ultimately kind of reevaluate what I was getting from my job, from my career, from my work, and started me on a path of kind of discovery, suppose ultimately, which I'm still on today a little bit, a path of discovery in terms of what really inspired me to get up every day and, you know.
you know, go to work and ultimately kind of do what it is we do on a day to day basis. So I kind of actually then moved more into a bit more of a music space. I started, co -founded and kind of started an agency which worked predominantly really in the kind of the artist management promotions space as well. And one of the interesting things that they were doing was really at the genesis of music and branding. So back
There was very little kind of in the way of kind of KPIs for music, you know, spaces with brands, know, brands really at that point were very open just to be kind of affiliated or connected to musicians or kind of cool artists in some way, shape or form. And that opened the door for us really to kind of, I suppose ultimately test and learn on a lot of, you know, music activations, experiences that intersected with brands at that level. So, you know, one of the pioneers
a lot of the work that was coming out of a kind of a well -known British TV channel, Channel 4, which is very widely known as the kind of the creative channel, domestic channel over in the UK, did a lot of work with Hugo Boss, Ray and Nephew. it was really the kind of the, as I say, the initial trappings of what music and music branding turned into. And from there, I started to kind of really get much more into, I suppose ultimately,
Mark (03:30.124)
the part that creativity and culture can start to play in really shaping audiences and how audiences perceive both brands, the communications and the products that they have within them. So yeah, so that, as I say, that kind of kickstarted a whole journey and I moved through everything from kind of music strategy, music branding. I was working at an agency
chords that were part of McCann, obviously the well -known Above the Line agency, working closely with them on everything from original scoring through to music and sonic branding, which was again, something that we were very much at the forefront on. And then made my way through more into, I suppose ultimately events experiences, that terminology has definitely evolved over the last few years from experiential to brand experience to everything in between, but landed myself more in that space. And I
above all, the thing that stood out for me was, how you could create experiences really that shifted the dial, of audiences perceptions, around brands. And I think for me, when I landed in that space, it was ultimately the, kind
I suppose that the kind of the culmination, you will, of a journey of exploring different facets of the marketing mix, different approaches through strategy, creative execution, and landed me very much in a space that I was, I felt very at home in, one that, you know, allowed us to, or allowed me to kind of execute and drive fantastic experiences, but also allowed me to kind of have creative steer in some way, shape or form, which was, you know, for me was really exciting. And one, think that landed
in my passions without having to do my passions. think often, you know, people talk about, you know, don't always necessarily do the thing that you're really passionate about because it can often kind of pull the curtain back a little bit on, you know, on what that industry or what that, you know, subset of companies can look like. And I think that was probably very much the case for me in music, but it allowed me to kind of maintain, I suppose, ultimately a foot in culture, in music.
Mark (05:48.206)
but all the while, think doing it through the lens of business, the lens of, you know, driving efficacy, driving, you know, I suppose whatever it might be brand awareness, salience, whatever that might be, in a way that felt, like it was marrying two of my kind of passions, which is, you know, the creativity, the, the, cultural aspect, but also the business aspects and how to really, ultimately kind of drive, you know, change through those, those mediums.
That's broadly how I got to this space.
Justin Levinson (06:21.115)
Yeah, that's really interesting. How did you get from all that previous experience to being part of launching this new agency? How did that transition
Mark (06:33.698)
Yeah, I think, you know, as I said, my background, ultimately really through, you know, banking, more of the operational side of things as well gave me a firm platform and a base when it comes to, I suppose, ultimately the nuts and bolts of the business, how you start to kind of create something out of nothing and, you know, the structures and the frameworks that are needed in order for that to be a success.
within, I suppose, ultimately, Amplify, I've been very lucky to, you know, move through predominantly the kind of the client services space. And that has been developing a number of brands across the board. So you mentioned Airbnb at the top of the call. That was one that I brought in very much at the get go in 2014. One that I developed from the ground up and one of our still to this day, biggest clients. So for me, you know,
developing and building something out of nothing is something that kind of feels relatively natural to how I approach things. And I think the US is something that as an agency we've been looking to try and tackle, conquer, call it what you will for quite some time. Amplified's about 16 years old, so we're relatively young when it comes to the agency landscape, but old enough to really be considered now, certainly in the UK, one of the best.
if not the best kind of brand experience agency that there is. We'd always kind of had a look at, you know, New York, LA, one of those two markets and what that would really mean for us as an agency, almost I think as the next kind of frontier of growth. So I think when those two, I suppose ultimately those two kind of opportunities merged, you know, there was a personal situation that meant that I was able to kind of come out here to the US and it felt natural to, I suppose ultimately
look to see what we could achieve out here and, you know, from very much position of humility and we're not certainly not coming in here and, you know, pretending that we're, you know, the cock of the walk by any stretch of the imagination. But I think knowing what we do know and having the confidence that we do have as an agency in terms of what we stand for, the type of work that we create. And I think the ethos that underpins it all, we felt there was a seismic opportunity that we could kind of go after
Mark (08:58.52)
you know from my perspective the next logical step from building clients was building agencies so I think that was my natural progression and I'm still here two and a half three years on and so we're doing something right and yeah we're continuing to grow and across the board it's really exciting in terms of what we have achieved and what we think we can achieve here and I think it's our predictions if you will in terms of
value we could bring to clients is I think across the board playing out not too dissimilar to what we thought as well. the planning and the execution of that has been really important. So that's great to
Justin Levinson (09:44.027)
It's interesting, starting something from nothing that that's, that's quite a task. How do you, how do you go about starting in terms of like the business development side of things starting out in a new market? Did you sort of have a have a plan? Or how did that sort of had that come together?
Mark (10:03.698)
Yeah, I think, I think we, we always had a plan of how we wanted to approach it. I think there's a plan and then there's the reality of what that looks like. And I think starting any new business, you have to be kind of comfortable being in the uncomfortable from the get go, right? I think you can plan all you want to the high houses and predict that it's going to go in a particular way and
You know, the reality is very different to that. So we're very lucky that A, the client list that we have as a global group agency is so stellar. It's something that we've been incredibly proud of as an agency. Certainly since I've been there, which is close to 10 years now and much beyond, you know, it's been very much a part of the agency from the first day. So I think when we're looking at the types of clients that we have, we're already looking at a subset of clients that
you know, international, you know, for one of the better phrase kind of, I suppose, investors in audience led consumer marketing. So for us, that allows us to, I suppose, have a basis to build from, right? It doesn't necessarily mean that we're going to get, you know, briefs coming in the door immediately. But, you know, in a number of those
suppose examples and clients that we do have, what it allows us to do is just maybe put our foot in the door and kickstart a number of conversations in the right areas as well. again, a lot of this has has has ladded up to how we are driving the reputation of the agency, the recognition of the agency in market. And, you know, we do that through a number of different methods and and and verticals. And I think within that, then it's about, you know,
Partnering with the right, sometimes kind of partners and intermediaries and kind of voice to catch as if you will to try and start to position us. think it's about ensuring that you have a really refined and pointed POV and narrative. And sometimes that narrative shifts and changes from other areas of the business, right? So how we potentially communicate around Amplify in the US may be different to how we communicate.
Mark (12:30.638)
around that fighter to UK clients. So quickly having to learn, you know, what did stick, what didn't stick and, and iterating constantly iterating and refining that is kind of quite critical to ensure that you're not, you know, you're not kind of making the same mistake over and over again. So, you know, within, I suppose a combination, if you will, of that, you know, intermediary contacts, huge word of mouth, I think for us, one of the big things,
And one of the big successes is that by finding the right talent, often either clients follow talent or talent allows us to have conversations with past clients. actually we've found an enormous amount of success by ensuring that we pick the right talent at the right time and having new business very much as an active conversation with them in that kind of recruitment process as well.
And, you know, coupled then with more of a kind of a press recognition angle where we're looking at things like, you know, how we're positioning the agency in things like awards, how we're using strategy and thought leadership as a way to, you know, suppose.
put out in the world what our take on particular cultural elements or cultural points may be is critical. And then I think beyond that, we start to look at potential cultural moments that we can start to disrupt or again, just have a bit of a POV on so that clients that may use different mechanics to search for new agencies in an RP process are able to really quickly and easily
you know, a new agency in the mix that's got a point of view. That's really interesting to, to hopefully bring them on board. So it's definitely a multifaceted approach. And I think when you're looking at, you know, starting a new business in a new market and a market that doesn't really know much about you as an agency, it's about almost just kind of throwing spaghetti at the wall a little bit and seeing what sticks and you know, going right. Okay, great. That did, that didn't work. And, know, again, in that being comfortable in the uncomfortable,
Mark (14:51.522)
being able to iterate super quick so that every time you're picking up a new brief or a new conversation, that you're learning from the things that you're seeing prior to that. I mean, it's an interesting one, I think, because as an agency, we pride ourselves on being very always on with our new business. We don't necessarily adhere to locking in four or five clients and then accepting that that's...
you know, that's it for our fiscal year. Yeah. We really liked to kind of continue looking to build, you know, the client subset. also continued like to continue obviously, building the kind of the mix of the sectors that we have within the business. And I think for us, what that does mean is that, certainly at a leadership level, we are, you know, the skillset of fighting and, selling and.
developing new businesses is very much at the top of what we do on a day -to -day basis. It's not something where four months later, you're like, okay, got to dust off the old pitch jacket, get it back on and see how it feels about going out and speaking to new clients. Actually for us, it's an always on approach, right? So I think that really helps us because we're, as a senior leadership team, we're able to kind of drop into these conversations so quickly. We're able to kind of adapt to what we think
client might want so that we're not just essentially providing a cookie cutter approach to every single client. Actually, it's about, you not saying that they are a client, but the Azure wanted to kind of chat about something and Nike want to chat about something else. You know, we're able to kind of really quickly adapt and plug and play to ensure that what they're hearing is relevant to their business is relevant to their product is relevant to their audience. And within that, you know, hopefully that that means that
they get a better sense of us as talented individuals and talented teams to really help them with their business challenges.
Justin Levinson (16:58.607)
Is it tricky to scale based on certain projects? Do you guys work with lot of freelancers or kind of rely
Justin Levinson (17:08.081)
your
Mark (17:10.604)
Yeah, I mean, won't go into too much detail obviously to spit all the beans, but yeah, think most agencies run a freelance model as we do as well. I think the critical thing is, and one of the things that we've definitely found since being in the US is, know, the business lives or dies based on the mix of that and how we approach hiring in the right areas at the right times.
to ensure that the business has time to scale in order to kind of support that as well. But I think, you know, we've been lucky that the growth of the agency here in the US has been such that, you know, that's given us the freedom to kind of build in the right areas as a business. And we will, you know, we will forever still run a freelance model, absolutely. And I
You know, there are certain things that a freelance model gives you, which I think are critical for an agency, is particular skill sets. It may be that it allows you to, you know, I suppose move into particular clients that may or may not have been accessible because of particular individuals that they always want to work with. So I think there's always benefits to that. And I think ultimately as well, it allows the agency to kind of stretch itself.
as much as it can when it comes to exciting opportunities that might not necessarily be available to us if we were just taking that kind of full -time core team and their availability within that. it's a fundamental part of our business and it's one that has allowed us to thankfully, successfully navigate where we are today.
it will continue to be a part of our business as we grow across the board for
Justin Levinson (19:11.121)
cool. Yeah, that sounds like a really, it's consistent with lot of the agency owners I speak with. And sort of how you have things structured. I'm always just curious because I, you know, I come from a hiring background. So I'm always trying to like, I wonder what's going on over here. What you know, how are you know, in all these all different companies, how you know, how how does how they scale and what works and what doesn't I know that, you know, folks listen to this podcast, I think many are going to be agency owners that are sort
Or maybe there are folks that are looking to start their own agency and wondering, how do you start? What's the beginning structure look like? What are those first, what kind of things do we have to put in line here to, before we open our doors? So I think it's definitely interesting to know how everybody works internally.
Mark (19:59.926)
Yeah, I think that the, you know, what I will say in terms of a little bit more detail is the dance, if you will, is that you can get to a pretty senior top heavy space quite quickly, right? Because, you know, as an agency that's just starting out, you need senior individuals either to sell the work or do the work or deliver the work. So the balance really is like, how do you ensure
the right mix and the right individuals are there to be able to do that without putting yourself in a position that all of a sudden you're staring down the barrel of a significant overhead because lots of senior people have come in and they've excited you or they've piqued your interest in terms of what they're able to do on a day -to -day basis. But as the peaks and troughs of work starts to work through the pipeline,
And you know, the business may or may not have the stability to hold that. I think, you know, certainly as you're starting out as a business, you know, definitely putting in plan where you think there's absolutely critical roles might be. But also I think one of the things that we've I think, you know, relatively successfully is that we've been very clear with people that
As a start, even though we do have the mothership London, which has been around for 16 years, which you could in no way, or form really classify as a startup. You know, it's a very established business, certainly in Europe. We here in the U S fundamentally are a startup. You know, there is, you know, the way that we are, you know, navigating and comporting ourselves as a business very much is a kind of roll your screets, roll your sleeves up, scrappy approach.
until we get enough structure and you know, we kind of get into that point now, but we're to get enough structure really to kind of certify areas in an operational and kind of recruitment and structural perspective to really be able to deliver what you're looking to do at scale. But I think really at the start of it, one of the things that we really looked to try and instill with everyone that kind of came in the door was that we really couldn't have, you know, individuals in swim lanes, we needed people to be
Mark (22:27.49)
you know, looking on either side of them to see what gaps needed filling and then to work collaboratively together to ensure that those gaps were being filled. I think more often than not, when we were looking to hire very early on, we were looking to hire more like entrepreneurial people. And it's something that I think we continue to kind of try and drive as a core tenet of individuals that want to join Amplify.
What is that sense of entrepreneurialism? What is that sense of being able to do so much more because you're open to and perceptive to the needs of the business as and when they arise so that ultimately you're all kind of providing each other with that safety net and that you're all trying to kind of make sure that if something gets missed over here, it isn't the process that's catching it at that time because that doesn't really exist.
So you're all kind of working together to kind of put your arms around that particular piece of work or that, you know, particular process to kind of do that. So I think that's maybe something that we've really been kind of quite pointed out when we've looked at recruitment, like is, does this individual strike you as an individual that isn't going to go, right, cool, 5pm, I don't really care if everyone else is floundering, I'm done for the day, I'm out of here. Actually, I think we've been really successful
building a team of individuals that care about each other, which I think for us from a cultural standpoint is super important, but one that we, they also understand that they're in a startup world that is going to need all of us to, you know, to be fluid in how we respond to those challenges.
Justin Levinson (24:10.897)
Totally. Is it sometimes hard with those folks that have that entrepreneurial spirit to have them stay? they do sometimes feel like they're kind of maybe looking to start their own thing at times? Or do you do they feel like there's that has never been really an issue?
Mark (24:27.374)
I the startup mentality or fabric of a company isn't for everyone. think you get a sense pretty quickly if someone is more inclined to do their work for the day and leave, which is again totally fine. They are probably more suited to big structural corporations, agencies, whatever you want to call
that, you know, been around for 30 years, really clear in terms of where their client list is. You know, there is that, I wouldn't say the stability, but there is that kind of consistency, if you will, the client list that they have, the type of work they're doing, the team that's going to be there, et cetera, et cetera. I think we, one of our successes as an agency is that we are actually really comfortable being agile and fluid. We talk a lot with our clients around.
you know, being able to scale up and scale down super quickly, whether it's like a, you know, a small cultural platform that we're designing to someone, you know, the likes of like Dr. Martens, um, that can be very kind of grassroots orientated, very niche, whether it's, you know, a global 20 odds, uh, country, um, launch of the PlayStation five. Um, you know, we are able to kind of scale up and scale down super quickly because I think the basis of that is built on individuals that are super entrepreneurial.
can just move super quickly. And I think in terms of, you know, to answer the question a little bit more directly, but we really celebrate that individuals have their own things in play. You know, we don't necessarily castigate for that. Like lots of the individuals that work at Amplify have everything from, you know, their own small brands or run their own parties or, whatever that might be. And I think for us providing them a space and a platform to be,
to be celebrated through that, I think provides them with a home where they feel that entrepreneurialism and that kind of collaborative creative spirit is very prominent. So, you know, I think in many senses that's actually that's aided and it's kind of inspired a lot of those individuals to very much continue and develop their own particular, you know, avenues, whether that be, you know, some of them are even brands.
Mark (26:51.162)
We've got a couple of individuals that have now gone off to be founders in startups. We've got one in the FMCG space that's doing fantastically well. I think we love celebrating that. So I think it's always an environment we want to create. It's always an environment we want to celebrate. And hopefully for us, that means that we get the best out of them. And for them, that means that they push us to get the best out of us as well.
Justin Levinson (27:18.331)
Yeah, I like your philosophy there. What, you know, what campaign are there any standout campaigns that that, you know, really, you know, that you really love it that you've done over the years that that you would like to talk about? Sure, there's been plenty. But yeah.
Mark (27:35.478)
For me personally. God. Yeah, I I recently worked on one for LEGO that was fantastic. We were recently engaged to celebrate the 90th anniversary of LEGO and that was going to coincide with the World Play Day.
which is something that they, you know, day that they obviously leverage pretty consistently to kind of shine a light on all the wonderful things that Lego do across the board. But we, you know, the brief was pretty simple, which was really how do we bring play to areas that maybe don't have the luxury of play, you know, be that inner cities, be that areas where children don't necessarily have access to.
play on a day -to -day basis and how can we shine a bit of a light on those and put play really at the heart of that and try and give them some of that joy and that happiness back. And I think the interesting thing about the brief was the simple answer would have probably been take an inner city space and drop something in it from Lego and just hand it over. think one of the wonderful things that we managed to do with the brief was
give creative control to what are the world's best creative directors, which is kids themselves. So we set them a brief to, we actually selected a space in Harlem, New York. We brought in, we worked with a local organization called Brotherhood Sister Soul, who do a wide body of fantastic work with local community when it comes to providing.
everything from kids all the way up to kind of senior adults, you know, a wide ranging support across the community. We worked with them to kind of bring about 40 individual small children to come in and really just, you know, use Lego to showcase what creativity and what play meant to them. And then we worked with an artist called Hebrew Brantley, who you may know, to almost take some of those and blow them up into a kind
Mark (30:00.886)
life -size playgrounds which we built in its entirety. And then, yeah, we built that in Harlem, launched that to the entire community and handed it back to them really. And that was something that was with them for about half a year. And you can only imagine the permitting and the approval process that needed to take place with the New York City Council, with the I Love New York Council,
and the fire department and everything in between that. but I think what it was, I think a wonderful opportunity to take a kind of what would be regarded as a kind of straightforward CSR project, but really allow the audience to kind of co -collaborate and co -create that with us. And the audience really was, you know, those young, small creative directors that, you know, were
far more equipped than we were to shine light on what play meant to them. And one that I think, you know, from our perspective as an agency was wonderful to kind of be able to hand over to the city of New York. yeah, I'd say probably that was, that's one of my, definitely one of my favorites and kind of aligns as well with the brand that I think, you know, the more I've worked with, the more I have been blown away with, I think the levels of, you know, diligence that go into.
the communication and the layering of that brand. It really is a phenomenal organization from front to back. And it never ceases to astound me that the level of detail and thought that goes into creating the worlds around Lego in whatever kind of, I suppose, IP space exists within that enormous juggernaut of a company. yeah, I'd say that's probably my favorite one recently.
Justin Levinson (31:50.513)
Yeah, that sounds really cool. That's a great, that's a great story. Curious what your thoughts are on, on just sort of the changes in the industry of late. know there's obviously like a lot of technology technological advances and things, machine learning AI. The world is obviously changing pretty fast. How how are those sort of things impacting your your work currently?
Mark (32:20.27)
Yeah, think technology has impacted our work for many, many years. don't think AI or the metaverse has necessarily all of a sudden brought technology into our peripheral vision or even our field of vision directly. But I think for us as an agency, what we're always trying to get to is
What is the authentic use case for the technology that you've got in front of you that you want to use? And how do we move away from technology for technology sake to actually provide innovation in a way that feels aligned with the consumer and that feels like it bridges the gap between the consumer, the brand and the product. And I think that's a lot easier said than done. think if you look
probably a lot of examples across the board, certainly in the metaverse. Most recently, you can see, I think, lot of bad examples of brands that have almost just tried to get into that space without necessarily thinking about the value to the audience or the value of the communication from the brand itself. So think that's something that we're trying to navigate.
I suppose on a day by day basis. And, you know, it's important for us that, again, we're looking at technology through that lens rather than simply trying to crowbar, the latest founder, the latest trend into a particular campaign. and I think brands, you know, I think brands respect that. I think, you know, we're often in scenarios where we'll talk about, you know, how does AI impact this or, know,
And I think we'll always be very honest in terms of like, you know, there may have been kind of creative routes that we've discarded because we haven't felt that the technology has been the right thing to answer that challenge. So that's, think from our perspective, our ethos in terms of how that approach shows up in our work. But we, you know, we have internal initiatives. run a kind of an internal kind
Mark (34:43.18)
research group called Creative Futures, or Amplify Futures, is essentially a, it's almost like an incubator for experiments across the board that allow us to test and learn on innovation technology without necessarily having, you know, the brand lens being ever present in that. So it allows us to start to explore and in some senses, you know, and in some instances, create IP.
and I think then what that means is that by the time, hopefully, and ultimately if we do start to plug it into responses or we do start to talk to brands about how we could incorporate those particular elements that, you know, we've got such an understanding of how it works and we've kind of almost, you know, pushed and pulled it around so much that, you know, it, does become, a little bit more kind of, a little bit easier to kind of integrate those types of things in the responses that we have.
you know, either in play or conversations that we might have with brands to particularly, you know, to, look at how innovation could potentially impact some of their business challenges as well. So, you know, we're definitely very front footed in terms of how we develop both our knowledge, and the ecosystem around technology and innovation generally amplify. And I think, you know, the point I was making around doing that in an authentic way means that when we do have that knowledge and that understanding, we're not just kind
plugging it into things for, you know, for want a better word for no sake whatsoever, but it's actually being added. It's being, it's adding value to how we really communicate to the audience and give them hopefully a bit more of an authentic connection with the brand and one that feels generally very innovative and very fresh and brand new.
Justin Levinson (36:33.637)
Yeah, are you guys working with internal teams for the brand as well? Is it sort of a collaboration on that side or do most of the brands kind of just say you guys you guys run with
Mark (36:45.484)
Well, I think it can come from many different areas. think we as an agency have our own level of curiosity across the board. We've got a number of firm individuals that sit within the studio that have got technology backgrounds, are creative technologists and very much at their core and their heartland. So, you know, there is an inherent curiosity from us as an agency to want to explore and to, you know, pursue experiments
give us a greater understanding of how that technology or any technology is starting to develop. And then I think from there, it can go both ways. We can have a little bit more of a kind of a brushstroke conversation with clients and actually we'll go, that works really well or something we've been working on over here could be really interesting. Or it could be that the brief is quite specific
you know, they are looking for innovation in this particular area and then we can actually, you know, plug that straight in as well. it just means, I think that we, you know, we are challenging ourselves to be, knowledgeable, and you know, industry leaders for our clients. and that's ultimately that what they're looking for us to do, right? They're looking for us to be intelligent, creative, thought leaders.
and they're looking to us really to kind of creatively challenge them to inspire them. so I think ultimately it's incumbent upon us to, you know, continue driving that curiosity and making sure that we're on the front foot, of how that world around us is changing and, and the implications of what that means in our industry, right. which I think is, is becoming more and more profound and I think is, is also kind of changing the way we
and we're connecting and engaging audiences across the board.
Justin Levinson (38:43.901)
Totally. I got, well, I guess one more question for you, Mark. Outside of just doing the agency stuff and, know, which is not just doing the agency stuff, it's a lot of stuff. I didn't mean to say it that way. Where I'm getting at is what else can you do or what else do you do personally to, know, is there, what's in your life outside of the agency? Is it like meditation or like?
working out or mindset stuff or playing your guitar, what sort of things make you tick out, you know, in this world that outside of
Mark (39:21.614)
It should be meditation. It's actually funny, we often use this as a closing question to... No, we often use this as a closing question with a lot of people and you'd be surprised at how many people stutter and feel that there's a subtext to that. no, quite a lot to be honest. I'm a big avid record collector, so yeah, I've
Justin Levinson (39:25.885)
Yeah, you seem pretty stressed out right now mark
Mark (39:51.566)
personally running parties and other such things in London and here in LA for best part of 15 years. I actually run a, I suppose what would be kind of like an intimate pop -up high -five bar in Venice in California. So that's a twice, well, once every two months affair. So that's, you know, again, building something entrepreneurial in that sense, a little bit akin to what we saying earlier, right?
How do I, you know, I think one of my passions is like, how do you engage those communities and really get into them? And music for me is, is, you know, a deep, passion and something like, you know, that the high fire bar is saying that allows me to really kind of get deep into that. But, you know, beyond that big skier, I do a lot of big mountain skiing. so, a lot of backcountry, kind of free rides, touring that kind of stuff.
and I'll probably leave it at that, that's two relative big ones, but yeah, that's...
Justin Levinson (40:55.293)
Well, we have a house in Vermont. I'm actually in Vermont right now. So if you're ever in the, you know, around the Green Mountain State and you're looking to ski, look me up, you can always have a place to stay. It's pretty nice. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, people that are like, if you were like from Colorado, you think that Vermont is sort of maybe not, you know, not the Holy Grail. But as far as the Northeast goes, it's very beautiful here.
Mark (41:04.894)
Is it good skiing around there? Good skiing around there? No, nice.
Justin Levinson (41:24.573)
we do get obviously a lot of snow. and yeah, it's, it's just, there's a lot of just good, good vibes to people here. it's a good place to kind of just like unwind and get, get in touch with nature. So, if you're ever looking to get your outdoors fix, definitely let me know. Yeah, come on down. but cool, Mark. Thanks so much for sharing your story. And, it's really been a pleasure. and thanks for taking, yeah, thanks for taking your time out of your day and, giving us your insights. I appreciate
Mark (41:37.688)
Great. Excited about my invitation to head up there then.
Mark (41:53.644)
No, really, really great fun to dive into it and appreciate you having me on. So thank you so much for
Justin Levinson (42:00.707)
Awesome Mark, appreciate it. Have a great rest of week.
Mark (42:03.672)
Great, you too, Lovely chatting.
Agency Side host and the creative matchmaker extraordinaire at Coming Up Creative. Connecting top talent with leading agencies by day, uncovering industry secrets by night (well, whenever we record).