Alison Berk on Art & Advertising

Justin Levinson (00:01.002)‍

Hey everybody, welcome to the Agency Side podcast. I'm your host Justin Levinson and I'm here today with Allison Burke, is the director of art and print at 72 and Sunny, leading the art and production team. Thank you so much for being here today, Allison.

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‍Ali Berk (00:15.778)‍

Thank you for having me.

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Justin Levinson (00:17.278)‍

Yeah, I'm excited to hear about your story and all that jazz. So maybe we can start by just asking how you, how did you get into this particular space?

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Ali Berk (00:28.462)‍

I kind of got here by accident. I started off in menswear design and fashion and, ended up then moving on to the editorial world in women's fashion, at Marie Claire magazine. And I found the production side to be more my speed and slowly and surely got my foot in the door working as a freelancer with ad agencies and, have been in the advertising space ever since.

I freelanced for eight years and then went full-time at Wieden in 2015 and then came to 72 and Sunny in 2019 to run the art and print production departments.

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Justin Levinson (01:11.616)‍

That's awesome. Were you studying advertising, marketing in school at all? Or what was your path at that point in your life?

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Ali Berk (01:21.19)‍

I have always been a fine arts student. I went to college to study photography. So I majored in photography in school. And I thought maybe I would do menswear coming out of college, because I had actually done it before college, working full time at Tommy Hilfiger out of high school. And I decided that the marketing end of the brand was a little bit more compelling long term to me than the design of the garments.

like understanding how to produce something in the world that didn't exist before. It was an amazing education in that way. I felt like the marketing of those things was exciting to me.

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Justin Levinson (02:03.656)‍

Yeah, that's pretty cool. And so you're doing like a lot of freelance work. What was sort of, you know, what was sort of made you want to be like full time and really kind of commit to that space kind of moving into a full time position.

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Ali Berk (02:20.696)‍

Well, I've realized for eight years, I didn't know exactly what I was getting myself into. I just knew that I wanted to have the flexibility that full-time didn't give me. And I wanted to be able to work with different brands and different agencies on different projects. But what I felt I was missing towards the end of the eight years was the ability to plan financially. That was the part that got difficult for me. I wanted to...

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Justin Levinson (02:45.44)‍

Yeah.

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Ali Berk (02:49.888)‍

invest in ways that I couldn't confidently do when I wasn't sure when the check would come. was, I didn't miss a day of work for eight years. I worked regularly, but it was this pattern of getting the check and knowing I could put it away and not touch it that I didn't feel like I could really rely on confidently. So being full time, I really felt like I could get my roots with people, get better at my craft.

get feedback in ways that you don't necessarily get as a freelancer, and also start planning for the future financially.

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Justin Levinson (03:26.144)‍

Yeah, that's really interesting. Maybe just for the folks listening that might not know exactly what your role consists of, maybe you can explain to the novice what your day-to-day sort of looks like now.

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Ali Berk (03:43.502)

‍Well, I came to 72 to really be a part of the creative process at an early stage when we're coming up with ideas for brands, whether it's pitching or project-based work or AOR work. So, you the teams have an idea and they come to art production to see how we can build a body of visuals that can help prove the idea or build the idea or come up with partners that could be good collaborators for us.

in the production part of the process. And then obviously, besides the creative craft part of our jobs, we execute the work as well. And so our day to day can look anything from digging into the internet to see what artists are out there and what kind of work could be compelling and great to share with the teams, or executing an idea, being on set.

making sure things are going well and we're getting the best possible assets for our brands or being in post in retouching or CGI, making sure that our assets are looking the best possible way that they can and then executing it and pushing it out into the world through print production, which would come out in our out of home digital boards, banners. So there's so many different lengths of our artwork.

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Justin Levinson (05:08.734)‍

Yeah. Yeah, where do you find artists typically? And what kind of things catch your eye typically when you're looking for them?

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Ali Berk (05:19.17)‍

We, personally, I'm always looking on Instagram, in movies, television, magazines, fashion, the art world. I mean, it's kind of from everywhere. But the key, I think, is not looking when the project comes. I feel like we always have to be looking and organizing what we're finding so that when the project does come, we have put in the work to...

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Justin Levinson (05:24.256)‍

Mmm.

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Ali Berk (05:49.144)‍

come up with ideas quickly and we're able to really scratch beneath the surface to get like a diverse group of people doing the kinds of work that we're looking for.

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Justin Levinson (05:59.039)‍

Yeah, and you said, I'd mentioned like production partners when you're, what does that kind of consist of? Like who are those people typically?

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Ali Berk (06:07.681)‍

Well, our production partners, there's kind of a few of them. It's the artist. So it's the right artist to understand what our clients are looking for and the right flexibility to know that there's like a client we're pleasing while also trying to make great work. It's a little bit of a delicate dance. And then the producers to the production companies we work with to, you know, have our, to have a set of great production partners just makes the production go so smoothly. It makes the client feel really good.

we get the best possible work if everyone's comfortable and able to get a ton of work out of the day. So there's a couple of different production partners. And then obviously post-production is a big part of that as well. End printing and proofing and we bring in a lot of partners.

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Justin Levinson (06:50.046)‍

Yeah. Yeah, that's pretty interesting. Maybe you could explain to me, what is art buying? I know that's part of your gig. Maybe you can explain that as well.

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Ali Berk (07:02.158)‍

So art buying is essentially the process of finding and contracting an artist to execute work, whether that's original work, licensing, a body of work. So we get an idea. We go to several artists. We decide which artist is the right one. Everybody feels good. The budget looks good and feels good. And we contract that artist to...

do the work, so we're working really closely with our legal team. We're very familiar with contracts and terms and usage. And then we bring that person in officially for the production and to execute the idea till the very end. So that's the art buying process kind of in a nutshell. And then obviously you go into production with them and see that through. But I feel like technically the art buying process is that early stage.

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Justin Levinson (07:52.008)‍

Yeah, that's interesting. it's like you've, you're constantly building up a roster of artists and looking for new people and keeping in touch. And then when the projects come, then it's a matter of you're reaching out directly to these artists and then there's a negotiation of a deal and some, depending on what it is, is that part of your job doing that negotiating and how, what that's all about?

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Ali Berk (08:16.726)‍

Very much so, yeah. think it's that early negotiation. And then sometimes when you're wrapping a job, there's a bit of negotiation too and discussing how the budget looks, why it looks that way. Are we in budget? Did we get the right permission to spend all the money that was spent? So there's sort of like this production headed mind and then the creative mind of, well, what's the artist feeling in this position? We really want to feel like when we're negotiating with artists, they feel protected.

And then we're also trying to protect our clients. So being able to see it from everybody's side, I think is a good headset to be in when you're putting contracts together.

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Justin Levinson (08:55.957)‍

Yeah, that's really fascinating. Not to keep double clicking on the same question or the same topic, but just that I find it interesting myself. Are the artists typically represented by people as well where you're going through another person before you're getting to them?

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Ali Berk (09:01.622)‍

No, that's okay.

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Ali Berk (09:17.41)‍

Sometimes we have a lot of artists represented by agencies that represent a body, know, several artists of different, with different specialties, but artists these days with the ability to market yourself on Instagram don't necessarily need an agent right away or they feel it's not the right time or they are comfortable doing it themselves, but we deal with artists that are and are not represented.

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Justin Levinson (09:43.838)‍

Yeah. Are there like, you know, I'm familiar like in the music world where there's sort of like royalties on stuff that you've, you know, created that you sort of get back into publishing and the performances. Is there any sort of like royalty that artists get to or any sort of residuals that come if the art is repurposed through different things or how does that work?

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Ali Berk (10:08.576)‍

Absolutely, yeah, that's a big part of our work. Film is traditionally work for hire, so after the project is done, there isn't a licensing component. But with us, if the client is interested in extending our contracts, using it for longer than they anticipated, using it in different ways, sometimes it goes really well and then suddenly you're making even more work than you anticipated. We go back to the artist and negotiate for additional terms, additional usage. And then the artist sometimes

will give their work to Getty or to other licensing components to their work down the line. And they can get royalties through the use of that work in that way as well. So the artist really does have several ways of making money after the job is complete and after the usage is wrapped.

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Justin Levinson (11:00.202)‍

That's pretty cool. Is AI impacting your job and your relationship with artists and that sort of new thing happening out there?

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Ali Berk (11:11.234)‍

For sure, I think it's such an important new.

part of our world. It's impacting us in a couple ways. In post-production, it's an important part of how and when it's appropriate to use that. In concepting, because it's a great way to concept, but in terms of what you're referencing, we really need to be careful that whatever we're referencing is only from us and not from an open source so that we're not pulling from other people's work.

There's a little bit of a fine line being told, I think, in advertising still, where we really have to protect the original idea to make sure that it's pure and protect our clients to make sure that it's not being pulled from an open source. And the same thing in post-production. It all has to be closed source in order to be correct for IP. We're not exposing.

work that hasn't come out in the world through an open source, like if our client has a new shoe and we wouldn't put that in an open source system because then it's not protected anymore because it's a private entity still. there's a couple different ways that we can use AI, but we still have to be really careful with the ways that we're using it to protect everybody.

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Justin Levinson (12:34.878)‍

Interesting. How does get used in post-production? What is that like?

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Ali Berk (12:40.098)‍

The way that we've found it works sometimes is extensions, like if we have a sky and we need more sky, it helps us get more sky depending on the orientation that it was shot and the orientation that we need. So sometimes extensions is a way that it can really help us.

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Justin Levinson (12:47.514)‍

yeah.

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Justin Levinson (13:02.528)‍

And that maybe saves a lot of money, because if you needed more sky, would you have to have normally just redone it again, and now you just can get more sky?

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Ali Berk (13:10.702)‍

Or we can license more Sky and then build the asset to have the license Sky as an extension, for example. But the other part is like, are we able to take the asset and resize it a million different ways based on the work that needs to go out into the world? That's the, some of the programs we're looking at now are ways to help us create more work in a shorter period of time without it being so manual. So.

Part of the trickiness is that our timelines are so condensed, and our work isn't always locked by the time we need to make all these sizes. So AI works when you've got your concept totally locked down, and it can help you resize things in the ways you need it. But if you're still working in noodling things and doing a lot of customization to placements out in the world, it's not necessarily that helpful yet. So we're still pacing with everybody else. Like, every day seems like a new development in AI.

But we're finding the safest, best ways that we possibly can to integrate it.

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Justin Levinson (14:12.136)‍

Yeah, that's really cool. What's your favorite part about your job?

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Ali Berk (14:19.98)‍

My favorite part about my job, I love working with artists. I love searching for artists. I also love bringing art and inspiration to my teams and the agency. It's really exciting to share ideas, know, share the things out in the world and get feedback from the creatives and feel a part of the creative process. I really, I get really jazzed by that and I...

my favorite thing in the world is looking at art, so it sort of feeds into my personal passions as well.

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Justin Levinson (14:55.946)‍

Yeah. Do you have any favorite artists or any things that our listeners could check out that you dig?

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Ali Berk (15:05.922)‍

Yeah, I don't know if you've seen the latest Dior show, but they recently had this fine artist do this huge embroidered mural. She's a painter and they had her come and do this embroidered mural throughout the entire show. That was amazing. There's some really, right now, Paris Fashion Week is super exciting. Willie's show is amazing. And the way that he's collaborating with Kendrick Lamar, I know there's just like so many cool collaborations right now.

So right now my head's kind of in fashion week, but normally I'm looking at what the museums have and looking at young artists and what they're coming out with. A lot of the LA Fire Relief prints are being made to raise money, so I'm loving seeing what kind of prints are available to help raise money there. So yeah, it's a daily endeavor for me.

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Justin Levinson (15:35.648)
Justin Levinson (15:59.774)‍

Yeah, that's great. Do you travel a lot or is that like with your with your gig? Is that part of your job as well? Are you mostly in LA or what's that like?

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Ali Berk (16:08.418)‍

For work, I go on set when it makes sense. Sometimes I'm EP-ing a job, sometimes I can't, or there's a conflict, or there's multiple shoots happening at one time. So yeah, there's a little bit of travel. I'd say four to five times a year we have to travel. I have personally travel. But personally, I love traveling. I don't get to do it as much with a seven-year-old, but I get a ton of inspiration traveling.

Thankfully got a lot of my travel out of my system prior to having my son, because I knew it would be harder. So I definitely traveled a lot of places on my own to get it out of my system and see the world.

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Justin Levinson (16:53.31)‍

Yeah, I didn't really realize before having kids that I was not gonna travel as much. I remember like right before we had our first child, I went to Germany to do a little music tour that I did for about a month. yeah, I did like something like 30 shows in one month. when I came home and I was like, yeah, you know, I think.

I could do this, I know the kid's gonna be born pretty soon, but I could see myself doing this every year. I think this was, yeah. And my wife kind of looked at me like, okay, all right, we'll see about that. And sure enough, like, yeah, it's been a, you know, there's been a damper on the traveling. But, you know, we have one six-year-old who is just finally getting.

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Ali Berk (17:29.74)‍

you

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Justin Levinson (17:42.036)‍

decent at traveling and then we have like a two and a half year old that like, man, we went on vacation. was so, the traveling was so hard and it was like putting them together. was just like, man. I mean, she didn't like cry through the, it was just like the, you know, that when you get like flight delays and you're just like trying to entertain and you're just trying to like, it's just like, my God, this is like the opposite of a vacation, you know?

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Ali Berk (17:50.99)‍

I'm sorry.

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Ali Berk (18:07.022)‍

And I remember loving traveling and getting so much out of it. And I know this is just a period of time, you know, when they're small and it's hard to get around. And I dream of my days of just getting on a plane and flying to Africa and not being a big deal at all. Now it's just this huge mountain to climb mentally and the preparing and the what ifs of having small kids and traveling. It's got to be relaxing for you in some way.

to make it all worth it. And that's the, it's hard to find destinations like that.

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Justin Levinson (18:39.796)‍

Totally, and now I find too, like the other end of that is like, if I do go on like a trip, like for business or to see a friend, then I'm like gone for like 24 hours and I'm like already missing my family and like trying to get them on FaceTime and stuff, like what are you guys doing? It's like, might as well just be back in my house. I'm like, damn it. yeah, no, this is like no, there's no way to.

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Ali Berk (18:52.938)‍

Just see.

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Ali Berk (18:59.402)‍

Totally. We want all the things.

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Justin Levinson (19:06.986)‍

Yeah, I always want something more. I was reading that, least it's one of your LinkedIn skills, that you are interested in comedy or you've done standup comedy in the past. Is that something that might be linked to truth?

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Ali Berk (19:20.512)‍

No, I just love comedy. So I consume all things comedy on TV. I really, really love comedy. I love laughing. Anyone who can make me laugh is an immediate best friend. But no, I don't personally do stand up. I'm a big appreciator of those things, but not me personally.

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Justin Levinson (19:22.239)

okay.

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Justin Levinson (19:39.914)‍

You watching any funny stuff on any funny shows that you are digging these days?

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Ali Berk (19:45.472)‍

Everything I'm watching right now is pretty heavy. Everything really is so heady right now, which I'm here for it. Some really funny shows that I do dig is Platonic is hilarious on Apple TV. I love that show so much. It cracks me up. I Think You Should Leave is so funny. Yeah, there's a lot of shows that I really enjoy laughing at, but.

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Justin Levinson (19:53.279)‍

Yeah.

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Ali Berk (20:13.644)‍

I also enjoy the serious stuff and the world building of like silo, you know, where you're like really just feel like you're in a totally different world.

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Justin Levinson (20:22.398)‍

Yeah, yeah, I can dig that too. I tend to, right before bed, I try to keep it pretty light or happy just so I can ease into the night with my insight timer meditation app. And then I finally go down without a bad thought in my mind. But yeah, sometimes I like the heavier stuff to kind of, you know, really kind of depends. Same thing with for music for me to like I can like

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Ali Berk (20:38.574)‍

you

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Justin Levinson (20:47.198)‍

You know, sometimes I can get like into this really like happy stuff and sometimes I can listen to like Elliot Smith and I'm like, man, this is going, this is pretty dark stuff, but I like it some way, you know? Yeah, it's the balance. Cool, well, I guess what some, I'd be curious to know if there are any like standout.

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Ali Berk (20:55.426)‍

Yes. Yeah, you need to tap into it, into that emotion.

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Justin Levinson (21:11.774)‍

Yeah, like campaigns or anything that you've been a part of that really, you know, that really meant a lot to you.

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Ali Berk (21:20.278)‍

Yeah, over the past year, we've had some really exciting campaigns, especially our latest project for United was a huge out of home flip. was like a nationwide out of home flip for United that changed every board in and out of airport for them, launching a new design system and new sort of look and feel and new animation on our digital boards. It was a

huge undertaking and it just was so exciting to see that come out in the world all at once and how big of an impact, you know, in our personal lives of getting on a flight and how many times you see it on the way to the flight and having friends and family send us pictures and that was a huge undertaking and such a satisfying one to see go out into the world. Also just did a big campaign for Venmo, which was beautiful and fun and there was

an anamorphic component that our film producer took our stills and then made it an anamorphic file. So it sort of looked like it was like turning and three dimensional at the same time. My fellow film producer just did such a great job taking the stills and kind of taking it to the next level. So that was really cool. Yeah, there's so much stuff. We're working on Cadillac just came out yesterday, our first Cadillac campaign for their EV line.

Yeah.

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Justin Levinson (22:47.121)‍

that's cool. There's a new Cadillac EV coming out.

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Ali Berk (22:50.306)‍

the whole line of EV vehicles for Cadillac. It's really exciting.

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Justin Levinson (22:54.602)‍

That's cool. I'm a Cadillac fan. I always think about my...

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Ali Berk (22:57.24)‍

They're gorgeous.

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Justin Levinson (22:59.264)‍

My great aunt Marcy, was, she lived like she was 100 years old and she lived in Florida and she had a, I mean she hardly ever drove but she had like a 19, I don't think it was like maybe late 70s Cadillac that she just, it was like brand new because it was in Florida and it was always in her garage and every time my family would come and visit we'd drive the Cadillac and it was just so like big and I remember being like, wow this is like when you turned,

the light would kind of like move to the left side. So it's kind of like, you know, lighten up where you were going. And at that point, I'm that was like, first, like a car from the 70s. You're like, wow, this is like the future, you know. So I have good memories of the Cadillac. And of course, Billy Joel saying Cadillac, definitely do great memories. Yeah.

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Ali Berk (23:42.552)‍

So cool.

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Ali Berk (23:48.878)‍

It's a really, the design details are so cool and the colors are beautiful. It was very fun to shoot them and get in and get to see all the new details.

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Justin Levinson (24:02.88)‍

That's cool. Are all out of home projects, are they all digital? Or do you use some like just a billboard, like is there print? Like what are all the different ways that the out of home exists for you?

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Ali Berk (24:15.406)‍

Oh, tons of print. So out of home is kind of lives in like digital, huge digital billboards, bus shelters, printed boards. It could be wild postings on a street, you know, with wheat paste. There's a lot of different ways that out of home exists. But like the art can live digitally. It's online. It's web. It's it can be.

pre-roll, you know, there's a lot of different ways that the stills can live digitally, but out of home lives in the previous ways I mentioned. But the print component is like a huge extension of our work because the minute it gets to a physical print from a digital screen, it looks completely different. And so making sure that the colors are just as vibrant as they were on the screen sometimes takes a lot of color matching or making custom colors to make everything feel as vibrant and CMYK as it is in RGB.

So yeah, the print component of our jobs is a really, it's a labor of love. It's a ton of work, but it's so exciting to see it printed and in the world.

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Justin Levinson (25:24.862)‍

Yeah, that's so that's super cool. What's sort of the biggest pain point for like, you know, this specific part of the industry? Do you have any other things that are that are sort of difficult? Not to delve into the negative, but just out of curiosity, what as a serial problem solver, I'm always wondering from from creatives and people that are working, you know, in the thick of it, what? Yeah, what's some of the pain points that have been going on?

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Ali Berk (25:55.054)‍

of the challenges that comes up is just not really knowing where things are going to land. So not knowing the media when we're creating the concept. And then we find out the media kind of at a late stage, and we're having to staff up and adapt the work to make the media as impactful as possible. So that's the part that sometimes isn't in sync because the media buy isn't finalized or they're still working on that part.

have already concepted or in the middle of shooting. So it's a little bit of a dance of trying to make sure that whatever we're making can work in whatever way it can show up and be as strong, whether you're seeing it on social or whether you're seeing it on a billboard.

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Justin Levinson (26:39.528)‍

Yeah. And then how do you guys go about like, how do you guys typically, I mean, you've kind of told me how you found, how you find artists like through Instagram and just being aware of things on the web and current events and people, how do you typically...

like staff the rest of your team that you're working with? How does, how do you, and what kind of qualities do you, I imagine you're someone that handles some hiring. What kind of qualities do you look for in people when you are bringing them into your ecosystem?

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Ali Berk (27:14.136)‍

Well, we look for people who have done, you know, number one, people who have done really good previous work and then, you know, done work at scale in the same ways that we're looking at, you know, people who have done big campaigns in the way that we're needing to do the work in house. And I love people who are passionate about art personally. I think that just makes them a great art producer. When it comes to print production, somebody who is detail oriented.

understands naming conventions and organization, because a lot of that is just like, the details are so important, because we have a lot of assets we need to make, and we need to track it all and make sure everybody's organized. And someone who's a good leader, somebody who can command a room and make sure that we're getting the answers we need, communicating kindly, nice to be around, people are excited to be on the phone with them.

and excited to do business with them. there's a lot of qualities we're looking for. at the end of the day, if they're enjoyable to be with, that's a big part of it. We have to enjoy the process of working together.

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Justin Levinson (28:25.684)‍

Yeah, no, that totally makes sense. If I guess for someone who is coming up in the industry, who is like looking to have a position like yours at some point at a, you know, at a, at a leading, you know, company like 72, you know, where's, do think they should start? You know, in this particular time, I know you've been doing this for a minute.

But if you were a junior level person starting in the industry now, what would it look like for going up the ranks?

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Ali Berk (29:03.244)‍

Hmm. I, well, if specifically in art production, let's just say if we were to focus on one discipline, I would say trying to find artists that you believe in and partnering with them and helping them make their work a reality, whether it's like small projects or things that you can do in your living room. They don't need to be big budgets in order to make them impactful and

to be curated well and beautiful. And we can obviously put that stuff up in the world for free. There's a lot of things now that are great for people who are just starting. when I started, there was a lot of money you needed to put into things to promote yourself. And now there's just so many other ways that you can do it that don't require a ton of money. I know that that's a, any way that we can equalize the playing field is good. So that's.

one thing I would suggest doing and networking and trying to educate yourself on who you're talking to and what that person has done. I get on the phone with a lot of students and a lot of times they haven't just Googled the kind of work that the position they're trying, they say they want, does. And I think just educating yourself and being an expert is going to help you have better conversations and more meaningful conversations when you finally do get that phone call.

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Justin Levinson (30:29.992)‍

Yeah, no, that really resonates with me. mean, honestly, that's one of the things why I even at this age still do things like this podcast because I want to learn personally what everybody does and every creative agency or, you know, vertical outside out what they do, you know, what makes them tick, you know, what their day to day looks like, what their

their hardships are, what their successes are. And that way, when I'm speaking with other industry professionals, I am able to offer something that is somewhat intelligent, at least if I can try. So yeah, I mean, think that it's always good to kind of know the job you are applying for before you apply to it. And yeah, I coach a lot of

know, junior level people that are going on meetings and with, you know, senior level people like yourself and interviewing for roles and prepping them as well on how they can best position themselves. And a lot of it, what you said really resonates. Usually it's the classic stuff like take a look at some of the work they're doing and the campaigns that they're doing, say you like them and why you like them, you know.

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Ali Berk (31:53.93)‍

you

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Justin Levinson (31:59.049)‍

Yeah, I mean, just kind of like basic stuff, but you'd be surprised that it's actually not only just junior level people too, that sometimes miss those details when they are on meetings. it's like sometimes people who have been in the game for a long time sort of forget what that etiquette is like. so even at my age or any age, I think, you know,

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Ali Berk (32:19.342)‍

This is weird.

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Justin Levinson (32:25.344)‍

Yeah, it's good to get those interviewing skills and being able to advocate for yourself and tell people what your value is because you've got to be your best, you're going to be your best advocate out there.

Yeah, I'm always interested because, um, yeah, I I want other people who are listening. The people that will be listening to this podcast, I imagine are a variety of people at different levels. So we have people that are listening that are, um, I mean, we know that there are a variety of different levels that are listening from the feedback we've been getting. Um, but yeah, some are junior level and they're looking to see somebody more senior like yourself and seeing a path that they can take to get to a higher level. Maybe they're, you know,

assistant or some coordinator or some lower level and you know when you start those roles and every dollar counts you know seeing where you are to like being a director seems like an eternity and how you get there is pretty can be pretty arduous so you know the podcast is important for those folks to be able to get that information and it's also just for you know people who are doing this

senior level people in a lot of people in different agencies, they don't know exactly, know, people in traditional brand don't always understand what's going on in like theatrical marketing people in theatrical marketing who are doing AV. They might not understand like the the key art, the movie poster world and they might not and everybody's got a different kind of thing going. So it's my job to to come in here and understand it all and share it with the with the world for

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Ali Berk (34:08.91)‍

you

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Justin Levinson (34:13.762)‍

for the greater good.

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Ali Berk (34:15.926)‍

No, I love, I love making this information more accessible for people at any level or in any other sort of parallel industry. I do think that the more we can understand about each other, the easier it is to sort of move around or get other work or understand an adjacent industry, a different industry, people looking to pivot. So, you know, it's hard to find this stuff in books. I don't think that there's like lot of really clear information about a lot of industries. I had a hard time finding it myself as a kid.

I knew what I wanted to do, but I wasn't necessarily, I didn't understand how many industries related to the heart of the thing that I wanted to do. So, know, any way that I can help people, I really try to, I try and do like college portfolio reviews and speak to young people and talk to artists that are looking to understand the advertising side of things and how different it is from the fine art side of things, how to protect themselves, you know, with.

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Justin Levinson (34:53.94)‍

Yeah.

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Ali Berk (35:12.226)‍

talking to other people who are looking to use their work and make sure that they understand what they're signing and getting into. So I love this stuff and I love your curiosity. So it's really fun to talk about.

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Justin Levinson (35:22.528)‍

Thanks. there any, and just when you mentioned like some of the younger kids and the advice you're giving, are there any schools that you are noticing that there is exceptional talent from in particular? know a lot of the, you know, there's like for a lot of the trailer houses that I partner with and a lot of...

like Otis is a really big one. hear a lot for design. Are there any that you're finding in your specific niche that where you're finding artists that are like, wow, they're doing some interesting stuff here.

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Ali Berk (36:00.13)‍

I don't necessarily feel it's one particular school. I'm not sure that I'm, you know, I'm not looking at the school that the person went to necessarily either as much as just the work itself. But what I am seeing is that a lot of really, really great artists are living in markets across the country. It's not just the coast. It's not just the big cities. But some of the most exciting things are happening in the smaller cities like Chicago, Atlanta. Like there's just a really cool.

And not that those are small cities, obviously, just, yeah, you know, it's just like some of the markets that aren't as obvious are really coming out with some incredible artists. And it's exciting to know that if we have a shoot in these places, it's easy to get someone who lives there to do it or, you know, to take the idea to the next level. And you don't have to fly people in. Like those people are existing there. So it's exciting to see that.

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Justin Levinson (36:31.232)‍

Compared to LA, yeah.

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Justin Levinson (36:36.469)‍

Yeah.

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Justin Levinson (36:56.85)‍

Yeah, that's awesome. We just have a couple minutes left. I usually like to at the very end of the the conversations I'm always curious, what else interests you outside of work? Do you have any other hobbies or or passions or things that that you enjoy outside of the day to day work?

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Ali Berk (37:15.492)‍

yeah, definitely. I paint as much as I can. I'm an avid painter and drawer. Any moment I can, I'm either taking a watercolor class or painting with acrylics. So that's my personal love and passion and spending time with my family and hiking and being outside is another. So that's what we do all together as a family.

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Justin Levinson (37:32.458)‍

Yeah.

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Ali Berk (37:43.414)‍

I love art and I love making art. So you'll see some painting stuff pop up on my Instagram every so often when I get a moment to myself.

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Justin Levinson (37:51.518)‍

Yeah. Do you have any like aspirations to, lean into that side a little bit more too? Or do you just out of curiosity?

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Ali Berk (38:01.548)‍

Yeah, totally. have daydreams of retiring and painting and that being, you know, working out of a little art studio. I definitely daydream about that, yes. One day.

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Justin Levinson (38:13.63)‍

Yeah, I definitely do that too. I imagine this retirement one day where I'm just sitting around playing piano all day long and I don't do anything. I tell my dad this all the time and my dad's like, you don't want to do that. You don't understand. You're gonna be so bored. You're eventually, because my dad, he spends a lot of time playing guitar and he's retired. So I think he...

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Ali Berk (38:23.214)‍

Thank

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Ali Berk (38:32.588)‍

Yes.

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Justin Levinson (38:39.092)‍

He's trying to get me like, don't rush it. Enjoy, you know, enjoy what you're doing. But,

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Ali Berk (38:43.926)‍

Yeah, it's good to be busy. It's a good age to be busy, I think.

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Justin Levinson (38:47.23)‍

Yeah, definitely. This is a good time. But Allison, thanks so much for talking and giving us your unique perspective on all this stuff and offering value to the folks that are listening. And I hope we can continue conversing in the future and maybe have you back on. And thank you so much.

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Ali Berk (39:09.336)‍

Thank you so much for having me. It's so great to talk about. really hope somebody, it resonated with somebody.

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Justin Levinson (39:15.584)‍

I'm sure it will and I do value the time and have a great rest of your week. All right, take care.

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Ali Berk (39:20.184)‍

Thank you, you too. Bye.

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