Building Worlds with Jay Rinsky of Little Cinema

Justin Levinson (00:10)

Hey everybody, welcome to the Agency Side Podcast. I'm your host, Justin Levinson. Today I'm joined with Jay Rinsky, the founder of Little Cinema and Little Cinema Digital. Jay has built an Emmy nominated experiential agency that fuses design, narrative, performance, and technology into unforgettable experiences for leading entertainment brands like Netflix, Disney, and Warner Brothers. From immersive in-person activations to groundbreaking virtual premieres, Jay and his team are redefining how audiences engage with media.

I'm excited to dive into his journey, his vision, and where he sees the future of entertainment experiences heading. Thanks for being here today, Yeah, so I'd like to start, ⁓ you know, briefly, maybe you can tell us how you got into this space to begin with.

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Jay Rinsky (00:43)

Thank you, Justin. Excited to be here.

completely by accident. One of my favorite John Lennon quotes is, life is what happens when you're busy making other plans. Our journey, or I guess my personal journey, came from, started in tech, kind of was into entrepreneurship, wanted to find means to an end to kind of do what is creatively most fulfilling to me, was in the online learning business and exited a startup at the age of 29. Found myself with a bit of change in my pocket and wanted to do what...

my, where my heart really was, which was into audio visual performance and became an audio visual performer for a couple of years where I was really specializing in taking video, video based content, films that I loved, clips that I'd find and remixed media and turned them into music based performances. So for example, cutting up Jimi Hendrix and Jacqueline Dupree and having those video screens be played live with a live orchestra at the Tel Aviv Opera House or taking movies.

and cutting them up and cutting new soundtracks into them and mixing them out in environments that were kind of like more dance music based where I was presenting film projects. And in that process, I kind of accidentally stumbled upon what had become, what was going to grow and become Little Cinema, where the night David Bowie died, friends of mine also opened a new kind of immersive experiential nightclub in New York, now quite legendary called House of Yes. ⁓ And they were looking for movie night.

but movie night for them and you know, the biggest spectacle you can kind of create or imagine. And I had a very simple idea. What if I take movie that I love starring David Bowie, the labyrinth, put it on my kind of magical turntables, let this cart pass. Okay, yeah, put it on my magical turntables and basically turn these into like experience, film based experience where.

The movie becomes also David Bowie's greatest music videos and they get cut into the movie and people perform during this film. there was this big multicultural mashup of cinema live performance, circus arts, music, and giant celebration of David Bowie. And that's when we kind of went, my God, this is a lot of fun and amazing and started Little Cinema as an experiential immersive film night where once a week we would choose a different film.

We would invite artists of all shapes and forms to collaborate and have conversations and dialogues with that movie and create these really big immersive performances with the movie at the center of it. And I just kind of want to call out again, the accidents of it all. did not know theater. I did not know stage design. I did not understand the concept of lighting cues and all these elements, but just in that process of wanting to create these experiences, started figuring out all these other elements.

And about a year later had quite a strong vocabulary. It became kind of like a night of being in the know in New York. And then I did not know that agencies exist, but then agencies would just come because it was a really creative thing to go to and hang out. And one of those agencies ended up saying, Hey, we've got some clients that can give you money to create these experiences for them. Do you want it? And all of a sudden it was like, wow, this is a, this is like a whole new.

bigger production budget than we could have ever imagined. And our, I guess, secret sauce at the time was somewhat innocence, but now I call it heart. Actually caring so much for the work and wanting to do the work. And all of a sudden there's a patron here that's kind of paying for this work. And we ended up creating a few experiences that brought all the agency folks and the clients to tears because Amber saw so much, know, heart poured into, you know, their experiences. So that was the first kind of dabbling in.

And then effectively we kind of started organically growing from there and became a, in within a creative studio with more of that model of one for us, one for them, where we do about five, six projects for clients a year. And then the rest, you know, do our renegade immersive art shows. Yeah. Would not be profitable, but it was extremely fulfilling.

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Justin Levinson (05:03)

curious,

what was the first job that you, you landed when you got, when they came to you and basically wanted to hire you for this particular work?

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Jay Rinsky (05:11)

Yeah, it was, it was, so we, used to take existing content and present it in new immersive ways and license it. They took three, they worked, it was an agency that pitched to a studio, three new shows that they were going to launch. And then they wanted us to create an immersive cinema based show that fuses all these three television shows into one audio visual performance. And they put that at what was at the time Northside Festival.

So for us, all of a sudden it was like, wow, we don't need to pay for the content. And this is content that people haven't even seen. know, ⁓ and this was also the first time I've kind of working with the studio directly and also just realizing, you know, that our big heroes are just flying so close to the sun, you know, getting an edit and all of a sudden the next edit has a different actor. Nobody even told us like all these changes are just happening on the fly.

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Justin Levinson (06:08)

Were you, were you nervous about that first job? Or was it just kind of pure excitement?

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Jay Rinsky (06:12)

I think that the whole first two years of Little Cinema was just nonstop anxiety, was, fueling me and getting me out of bed. think I was, yeah, there was a lot of nervous energy going on. It also was really short timeframes to create anything. Your anxiety is kind of blended with just a crazy ⁓ time crunch that, you know, you don't even have time to deal with it.

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Justin Levinson (06:37)

And then how do you, how do you get to the next gig after that? you let, you know, you, got the job, you succeeded. Now you have something on your resume. When does like the next thing come in and how did you guys kind of pivot into that?

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Jay Rinsky (06:49)

So we did it, we kind of, did, look, good work creates more work, right? Ultimately, ultimately also the client ended up going directly to us. And I also want to call out just the integrity. We went to the agency that booked us and told them that the client came directly to us, recognizing that that is the business. And also for anybody listening, relationships and integrity and your reputation is absolutely all you

So, you know, that was us kind of before we even became an agency, I think, kind of recognize those elements and the agency we dealt with were great. We're like, cool, we've got a lot of other work. This isn't such a big job, like go have fun. And, you know, did a couple of those. Then the other thing, I guess, that kind of came through and also back to the nervous energy, think part of, part of ⁓

It's a word, a personality trait of mine that I don't know if it's good or bad, but I, there's a blend of naivety and innocence that other people have fear. So I have a lot of just throwing myself in the water, not knowing whether it's deep or not knowing whether, not even knowing you need to swim. Let's put it that way. And then in the process learning that yes, it's water and it's deep and you'll drown and you got to figure out how to swim and you got to do that fast. So that, also has kind of been our somewhat.

for us, the engine of growth. And the next big one for us is we got booked to do a big event for Patty Jenkins, the Wonder Woman director. And that was also very anxiety fueled because we were like, shit, we're throwing an event for one of the biggest directors and we've never done this. We don't know where famous people will need to sit and what they want to eat and how to get them in through the door and like all, you know, but within that.

Once you take that and you find yourself in that position and you want to be successful, you know, on my end, there was a ton of nervous energy to a point of waking up sometimes feeling like I need to vomit in the morning from having so much anxiety in my stomach. But you start plugging in these holes and you find, you just start asking around and people starting to give you the confidence and you take a risk on people and people.

seeing your own reputation and getting a sense from you and also understanding the magnitude of the job, don't want to kind of mess up. And that ecosystem of structure just kind of like build itself to my philosophy in a way that the more trust you give people, the more they will want to work as hard as they can and not let you down. So I've been quite fortunate on that front to take a lot of leaps of faith on people that have paid off.

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Justin Levinson (09:27)

What kind of, so when obviously these jobs are getting more, getting bigger and serious at this point, what type of teams are you constructing to, to make these whole experiences effective? Thanks for tuning in folks. This episode is brought to you by Coming Up Creative, a relationship first boutique creative recruitment agency. We disrupt the creative ecosystem by running sophisticated multi-channel campaigns with custom video and voice outreach that actually gets responses.

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Jay Rinsky (10:12)

So this is before I real, this is, this is me realizing the structures that already existed within the job. And this is me getting the jobs mostly on the, creative force and my creative thinking. So the roles that I'm carving out for myself are much more within that creative direction of the event itself. Vibe, what does it look like? What's it feel like? And also the specialty that we had at the time, which was access to performers and talent.

curating good music, addressing up people and like immersive elements and kind of thinking outside the box. And then the people I was hiring were people that were event producers. And I was also doing the client management side of things. So this, and this is before we're really before we're a proper agency, if you'd like. ⁓ that led me to start taking meetings with agency owners and kind of

try and understand how the business itself works. Now we're much more structured, still learning all the time, but it's much more the typical model of an accounts person that can also sell creative, bringing in a creative director that can work alongside a producer ⁓ and servicing network.

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Justin Levinson (11:29)

Does it, did it feel like kind of strange to you as somebody who's so creative and started this whole thing out in New York to now be building teams and it's like, you you're taking a real like entrepreneurial journey here where now you're probably talking about like budgets and money and operations and putting people in certain jobs. Did that feel like an alien kind of thing to you or did you kind of, was that a natural, you know, second part of you?

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Jay Rinsky (11:55)

I think that's another one where I was fortunate to find people that were also kind of good at that. So, you know, early on a person that really helped our growth was a guy called Chris Shewitt that he, he was looking to start his own kind of agency and kind of tackle on that operation side and started with us as a producer. And then, you know, while I'm just running around dealing with everything, you know, he started kind of operationalizing a lot of elements.

You know, my entrepreneurial side is recognizing, wow, he's a really talented person. It's like loving operationalizing. And operationalizing is good. So let him run with it and let me keep bringing in good work and let me support him. So I'm less of the, I'm less of the more systemize it, run it, scale it, grow it. I'm much more of that, keep that energy going and make sure that people are doing the right thing.

and letting people do the right thing. And then when I recognize and feel that, do everything I can to support them to keep doing that aspect.

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Justin Levinson (13:05)

Yeah, I'm curious, you know, maybe skipping a few steps forward. mean, you've still got some of the stuff you've been doing, but I'd be, I'd be curious to know, you know, maybe some of your, ⁓ your big wins, like, you know, any sort of favorite, you know, campaigns that you've done or any, you know, highlight, highlight moments. Yeah. What was the last thing you guys did?

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Jay Rinsky (13:20)

I it's always the last thing we did.

The last thing we did was last week, we took over a speakeasy in New York and turned it into an underground casino where a murder takes place to promote murders in the building. You know, had the talent, Steve Martin, Selena Gomez kind of show up and help crack that murder and take photos. It was fun.

heroes. Yeah.

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Justin Levinson (13:52)

That's pretty cool, man. We're, how do those, you know, I'm a nervous nilly myself. You know, I just meet human beings and I'm kind of a, I can be a little bit shaken up. How, how do you deal with those people now that they're, you know, these are kind of like second nature relationships that you have?

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Jay Rinsky (14:08)

We're

all human. think that that's, that's another, you know, we really are all human and, really no matter who you are, where you are, what you are, you kind of got to live inside your head. And I think I recognize the same thing in other people and yeah, kind of people that are famous or successful or fascinating or anything like that. It's really just sticking to that human connection.

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Justin Levinson (14:32)

I was looking at your page and noticed you guys like partner with Cosm. I'd be interested to learn more about that. Interestingly enough, they're actually a client of ours for our recruiting company. do some work with them, staffing like their VFX department. They call on us a lot for technical directors and things like that. So was kind of curious to see what your relationship with Cosm is like and what you guys do with them.

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Jay Rinsky (14:53)

Yeah, it's been phenomenal. We've kind of been early adopters or early believers in the Cosmetech. Neil Cardy, their head of studios called me during that pandemic, I think when he just took the job, just saying, I can't really talk about this, but this is big and there's more coming. And he called me because

Previous to him taking the job at Cosm, we've shared a great relationship for many years. He used to come and see all the stuff we were doing at Little Cinema. And he was a kind of real innovation person at Media Link that kept in touch with a bunch of creatives. So he kind of knew of us and our work and our creative work and had that relationship. And then was, think employee number four there. Like he was, he was early on. Then during COVID, it was like insane. Also for us, COVID was a huge growth period.

where we built our own tech that became widely adopted in entertainment and really scaled the company up. And then coming out of COVID, he finally got me in Sundance to Salt Lake City. And this is before they even opened their venues. So they bring select people and they do demos of the tech. And that's when I kind of turned into a believer. I think previous to that, I couldn't really understand the brand. The brand seemed very sports-based and I didn't quite understand the power of the tech.

I can barely spell sports. I'm not a big, I love the energy of it. I don't understand enough of the intricacies within it. love the fandoms in it. So ⁓ it wasn't until I went to Salt Lake and got the demo and in the demo just went, wow, this is the most like powerful new media screen-based tech I've ever seen. And because we were so early in the process there, they kind of tasked us with you guys figure out how films work within the space. So then we started a really strong partnership.

working with their executive team, making introductions to our folks in the studio sides, trying to understand how to license the content. Then trying to explain to studios when you license the content, how do you play the movies? Cause it's a square. How does it fit into full dome? Like, and then we put a team of about six folks, which were a combination of like the effects artists, like similar 4D, unreal people, and started mapping out doing like technical creative explorations. So.

Okay. Do we do this in real time and do we create a virtual environment and what does that look like? Do we chop the films up and have them appear in all these boxes? Like what's the, what's the storytelling to this thing that's putting a square into a round hole, like literally. And then we ended up kind of cracking it with the matrix. So Warner Brothers was a big client of ours and they also had great relationships with, with them from the sports side. So we found the right department and we found how to like license the content together.

And then the hardest thing, honestly, I think that we probably still have ever done at Little Cinema was figuring out how to take The Matrix, starting with a completely white blank canvas, with a limited budget, with new technology, and figuring out how to honor this iconic film and do it justice. Within this new tech storytelling unexplored territories that is really complicated.

creatively, the creative and the tech are so intertwined. mean, what you can actually do and how to do it and feel also, know, luck is another big part of life. The fact that the Matrix was the first one was also, I think, one that accelerated the creative understanding of how to storytell within that space that we're now doing kind of more projects. So we've already announced the second project. We're doing Wanka. We'll have new storytelling. There's a third one coming. ⁓ And it really has been a phenomenal partnership.

with them and with another visual effects house called Makemake, which their production team brought to the table to kind of take our creative and scale it up to like full blown, cause and level. And in that process has also become an amazing creative part.

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Justin Levinson (18:53)

That's amazing. That's a cool story. Yeah, that's really awesome. You mentioned the pandemic and I don't want to bring us back to the dark ages here, but from what I read, was a bit of a turning point for success for you guys. You mentioned this tech I'd like to learn more about, but I also was reading that the digital part of what you do was sort of adjusting to the times to create experiences through web and so people could still, you know.

Obviously people were, like you said, people weren't going and doing experiences. So you had to find a different channel. I'd be interested to learn more about that and how that still plays a part in your company, even after the pandemic is over.

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Jay Rinsky (19:32)

Yeah, that's a great story. It's the birth of little cinema digital. And when the pandemic hit, my first instinct was just, we'll take a holiday. Cause it's like everything you know has just stopped and everything you do is absolutely physical. ⁓ And you haven't had a holiday in a long time. And then it was a conversation with one of my designers and she said, no, this is...

This is actually a great time for you to keep innovating. She's like, why don't you do a live stream and have a bartender and send people drinks and have them come to the, you know, your event with their drink and speak with a bartender. I'm like, that's cool. So this was really early on. And the story of what happened there was basically I had with my kind of startup background, having been in tech before.

had a light bulb moment that the film studios have no way of premiering their content, right? Because from a video standpoint, they need content security, they need infrastructure that's incredibly stable. They won't just give the film to anybody, YouTube, Vimeo, all these existing platforms that inhabit. And I think had that light bulb moment instantly and started building the tech that could get past these security teams. Then I had the other realization that

that every, you know, for filmmakers in film, it's all about, again, the quality and the story of the experience. And I started thinking, well, what, what would a, what a Kubrick level premiere be like? And this is a director that thinks through every single details, you know, not just put a video player and run it. It's what's the background, what's the textures, what are the fonts, how things transition between one another, like what's the story of it all.

Got lucky, met my co-founder in Little Cinema Digital, John Blair, which had ⁓ a really good understanding of both broadcast technologies and web technologies. That was a lot of the key to our success with a strong understanding of security. So he started kind of working in building the tech. We got a team up and then we took that creative approach with a great creative partner around the show, Snowpiercer. We were booked to do the premiere for Snowpiercer. It was meant to take place in New York. We already started writing this.

host screening run of show where you had secret train cards and performers and all these like immersive experiences taking place. So we just said, what if we do that on the internet and you watch the film and after the film, the interface transitions into, you know, video player with different train cars that you can jump through each train car has a different live stream that you can speak with these performers. And we're going to do it in real time. And they're going to talk back to you.

and they're going to send you on these journeys that you, you know, need to go to the other rooms and keep exploring and meeting them. And there'll be a club with a DJ and there'll be a bar with a bartender. And we're going to ship people out the glasses to drink. And we're going to ship people out a tarot card. There'll be a tarot card reader. And there is a Broadway singer in the cast. So we're going to ship her some gear and she's going to perform live from her basement, but more and more and more. And that was the first experience. And it was in

May 10th. So this was very early on and it worked and no one, no one I've ever, no one I think experienced what, you know, what we call interactive broadcasts where it's cinema level production, but the actors are talking back to you. You know, they're like, Justin, you know, so it was this like new, real exciting new medium to play with. And all the studios were really well capitalized. The streaming were started. They were all looking to how to do.

something cool in these COVID days, our phone exploded, we said yes to everything, we just kept growing the team. With somewhat the vision and the foresight that post COVID, this from being closed off events needs to become a way for one to many. was, you know, that was also us kind of like trying to look into the future of like, what happens when, things get lifted? How does this become also useful? And now kind of really proud the tech is embedded directly into Disney's.

owned and operated platforms, Netflix owned and operated, Amazon's owned and operated, and then able to do things for like the fallout fan premiere, come to Amazon, have 125,000 fans join an immersive live stream that takes place on their platform with, you know, interactive avatar selections, with their own fonts, with things being in world, with a live chat that's happening that's moderated and...

give these experiences that we were doing to closed off ⁓ like VIPs now, you know, are kind of being made public to celebrate fandom online.

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Justin Levinson (24:24)

That's cool. I love these pandemic success stories. When the pandemic hit for us, it was really difficult because obviously we do a lot of work in theatrical marketing and we do a lot of work in experiential, influencer, and immersive entertainment, but a lot of our business is in theatrical marketing. obviously, that kind of took a hit and then of course we hit.

hit writer strikes, actor strikes. been so many different things that have happened. During the pandemic, we really adapted into gaming because that was sort of what was really popular. So while the movies business was hurting, everyone was at home playing video games. So we really leaned into our partners on the gaming side. Of course that scale is sort of leveled out on that front now, but it was, it was very lucrative at that time. And the other thing that we sort of adapted with was the podcast, which was sort of

Obviously it's not a unique thing, but you know, everyone's got a podcast these days, but it turned out to be a really good thing for our business networking with, with leaders and, just kind of keeping momentum going during those, tricky times. So it's exciting to hear that you really came up with something so perfect for the time and how successful it was. Um, that's, that's really interesting. I was going to ask you, so you're creating the technology and, and, you know, who, who is.

responsible for promoting this. So obviously who is the one that's getting the bodies to this work?

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Jay Rinsky (25:46)

Great question. That is a great question. When we started or a lot of these events, it's the publicity teams. So the same way that you, you know, invite influencers and VIPs to your premiere, these were the events that we were doing. So it was a closed off invite list and it was celebrities that were coming and attending me. Now in the post pandemic where you're trying to hit scale, it's, there's just, we give you the ability to find the market wherever it is. To give you an example.

Netflix, you know, we did a special fan event for them for all the light you cannot see. It's based on a book. They wanted to screen the title and have a conversation with the director and the author. They did a partnership with Goodreads. They hit the mailing list of anybody that rated this book more than four stars. And then that created a, you know, specific audience that they knew would be interested in this IP. The marketing finding the people does require the

straight up marketing thinking. And we're generally fortunate enough that, you know, we're dealing with IP or content that people are interested to see kind of like pre-air. That's one aspect. The other one is powering fan sites. So, you know, we do a lot of work with Disney that have their D23 fan site. These people pay for a membership to come in and create the community and build that. So there are already kind of like built in audiences. We did things with Kansas City chiefs. Again, it's.

a brand that has a large audience. did things with Taco Bell. They, you know, put us into the app and they just send an app notification. And boom, you have like 50,000 people instantly in your own and operated apps.

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Justin Levinson (27:23)

Yeah. You're working with really established brands that it's, it comes to them. And that's, almost like what the movie business is now with, with Netflix view, know, you don't need to see the trailer to get the, the alert that the new thing has come out. And that, that's interesting. What, what to you is a successful, you know, experience? Like what, you know, are you looking at like how many people came to it if there was some sort of sales based on. After it was over, like what makes it when you're done? I mean, obviously.

If it's cool and you love it, that's a win. But what do you see as like, what makes it successful?

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Jay Rinsky (27:57)

Well, so I think for, I guess the question is from what, through which lens am I assessing this? Is this like our own experiences or these experiences that I'm attending or?

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Justin Levinson (28:08)

Yeah, maybe just in terms of like everybody involved, like what sort of makes it a win to you.

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Jay Rinsky (28:14)

So for, we're, you know, again, we're very much, we're a business and the creative studio and we do operate on that model of that kind of one for us and one for them. But the client work we do, our secret sauce is just like true heart, like caring for the creative and also customer obsession. Doing completely what our clients want and need us to do. So I'll give you, you know, so when we're doing client work, for me, success is the client habit. Like that, that is that, that, that's.

the number one, and we preach that throughout the organization with the clients. It's like, when we're doing an event, know what wine type the executive is like and think about that before them and just make every single layer there as seamless as possible for them and take a can-do attitude. And the client being happy is based on why they're doing the event. To please executives, to promote a show, to, you know, there's a whole different range and that is to me, success for the client. And the second measure that I have is.

Are we happy with the creative that comes after the client is happy? Yeah. Um, and that's a vibe. And I think that's something where I'm, proud of the work we do. I'm proud of the studio and I'm proud of the team. And that that's like the heart that people bring to the project, which is really making, creating experiences and events and places that we want to be in. Yeah. Yeah. No. And then the, the, the one for us, which is, you know, honestly, even experiences like.

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Justin Levinson (29:35)

Love it.

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Jay Rinsky (29:41)

Right? Like our, cousin, it's our brand. It's a little cinema presents. It's like the stuff that we used to do in New York. We just did a partnership with Tribeca. When you see the little cinema brand versus the Amazon or the Netflix, that's a different measure. And that measure for us is just, it's the creative integrity of the piece. And it's, and it's the vibe and emotion that we want you as the guest to feel at the end of the experience. And yeah, we're very religious about, you know,

persisting on that. It's not about how much money it makes or how many people see it. Like those things are great. It's really how many hearts you can touch.

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Justin Levinson (30:16)

Yeah, that's really great. We're getting close to the end here and I just kind of, I'd be curious to know outside of work, what is it that Jay likes to do on his own free time? Like what keeps you sane out there?

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Jay Rinsky (30:30)

listening to records.

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Justin Levinson (30:31)

Nice. You're a record guy. like the organic, putting it in and listen to it. All the way through. I'm guessing you like Hendrix and John London because we've referenced them before. What else do you, what kind of music do you dig?

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Jay Rinsky (30:36)

Distant good

I mean, I grew up in like mid 90s. you know, the radio, Radiohead, Floyd, like walk that rock, but it turned into electronic hip hop, world music, really do not distinguish. I collect records of all genres. And I also just enjoy these days, things that just have good sound behind them. So when you put the record player on a good hi-fi system and these vibrations start coming in that, you know,

creates feelings throughout, but yeah, music.

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Justin Levinson (31:16)

That's great, man. Yeah, I'm an album guy. can listen to I love records where it's like every and one of my like most heartwarming feelings I get is when I go past my daughter's room and she's got her record player on she's got her headphones in and she's just sitting there listening and I'm like, this is incredible. It's still it's still alive. You know, there's still there's still something in there and it might be a Taylor Swift record, which I might not be like my

My favorite style of music, but the fact that she's sitting there and she's listening from one to the end and she's not doing anything. She's not looking at her iPad. She's just like, you know, six years old and she's just like rocking out. And I'm like, can, I can really relate to that.

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Jay Rinsky (31:54)

I want to share that because that's a different type of connection. My ex and her dad, we could not find middle grounds until one day I learned that he ran a radio shack. And one day I came to the house and showing me his old hi-fi system. And it went from everyone awkwardly in front of the TV, you know, not really knowing how to engage to sitting in the living room with his hi-fi system from 1982 or whatever that was.

choosing an album and everyone just sitting and being present and listening.

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Justin Levinson (32:27)

It's great, man. Yeah. Music is, music is everything. But cool, Jay, man. I really appreciate you hopping on and telling your story and offering value to the folks that are listening. And, uh, yeah, I hope we can continue the conversation. Maybe we can do a part two in the future and learn more about future endeavors that you guys are doing in a little cinema.

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Jay Rinsky (32:46)

And if you're out there in LA or Dallas, speaking of Cozum, go see Little Cinema and Cozum present, you know, the Matrix and shared reality and coming soon, Manka and shared reality. It's definitely one we're proud of. that's awesome. Thank you, Justin, for taking the time.

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Justin Levinson (33:01)

Yeah, Jay. All right, man. Be well. Cool. Peace.