The Art and Science of Strategy with Bre Rossetti

Justin Levinson (00:10)‍

Hey everybody. Welcome to the agency side podcast. My name is Justin Levinson. And today I'm joined here with Bri Rosetti, chief strategy officer at Havas and Arnold. Bri oversees integrated strategy across the agency, bringing together brand communications, data, and business insights to help clients stay ahead in the rapidly shifting marketplace. She's been instrumental in shaping how the agency approaches consumer culture, audience behavior, and the role of creativity and technology, especially AI, in building stronger connections between brands and people.

Thank you so much for being here today, Bri. Nice to meet you.

‍

Bre Rossetti (00:42)

You too, thank you for having me.

‍

Justin Levinson (00:44)

Yeah. So, ⁓ to start, guess I'd, ⁓ like to just have a little backstory on how you got involved in, this creative space, to be in my.

‍

Bre Rossetti (00:53)

Of course. Well, I have always been in this space for my career, although I wasn't in college. I had the degree that naturally leads you into advertising and biochemistry, but I did double major in advertising and that was where I wanted to go. My parents were more on sort of the med school track, but right after I graduated, I took off and I went to London and I was lucky enough to be part of a program where I rotated through.

all of the different types of agency and all of the different departments in creative and media. And that was super illuminating. And I was lucky enough to work in London for seven or eight years, which was like a great proving ground and a great training ground. Because at that time, I won't date myself, but way back when everybody was in person, we didn't have zoom or teams. And in London, everybody was like physically together, all the clients, the agencies, the vendors. So you kind of jumped in with your feet first, which was amazing and great. And I was lucky to work with.

⁓ just really creative and really inspirational people.

‍

Justin Levinson (01:50)

Yeah, that's great. noticed on your LinkedIn that you started at Leo Burnett as an intern. Is that correct? Yeah. How did that opportunity start?

‍

Bre Rossetti (01:58)

Yeah, yeah.

You know, I think a lot of luck, to be honest. I was at Syracuse, which has a great program and lots of connections to the advertising world. So I had a professor that connected me when I was studying abroad in London, and I was able to work there. And that exposure was just amazing. I worked with some great people at the time. And, ⁓ you know, as an intern, I was able to do everything from strategy, going on shoots, you know, doing actual research at the time. It was so fascinating to be behind the mirror and

do parts of focus groups and things. And it was just great experience. They did not treat me like an intern. They treated me like somebody who was expected to show up to work and help and do the work. And I think that that was a great proving ground for me.

‍

Justin Levinson (02:45)

Yeah, that's great. I actually had a boss once that, ⁓ he mentioned that Syracuse, he, we went to Syracuse and just was always interested in speaking with candidates that were from Syracuse. Cause he's like, they're always bright. always, they're always really great candidates. So it's interesting that you went there in terms of your career. looks like your, background was more accounts when you first began. that, is that correct?

‍

Bre Rossetti (03:08)

Well, you know, I mean, I think I started at a time where it was like, just do the work, jack of all trades. Um, but I actually, I, I, I did work in account for a little bit, guess, as, as in my internships, but I actually started out really in a media agency and I was a, I was a press buyer. was a print buyer and now I'm really dating myself. My job was to like fax the IOs. And then my other job was buying like national broadsheets, which in the UK were a very big thing.

back in the early 2000s, buying print. And on Friday afternoons, each of the major newspapers had a different pub. And you would go and you would sign in on a chalkboard to see who was there. And you would go and you would deliver your IO for the weekend. So I was sort of the person going around different pubs, delivering that, which was really interesting, but like amazing for relationships and social relationships. And then I ended up being on what was called a innovation team at the time, but that basically meant figure out digital. And back then we were, you

buying banners without any kind of pixels or any kind of measurement. And that felt like innovation. I did a lot of presentations to convince people that this digital thing would be real. And I was met with a lot of skepticism. Yeah, exactly. I'm back to the code. But I've met with a lot of skepticism back then. But it was it was a really good proving ground to sort of be on this track of, you know, emerging behavior, emerging technology. And then I was lucky enough to sort of.

be rolled into a more communications planning role and then started to work across creative agencies PR as well. And when I came back here to the US, I actually did a little stint at an agency doing a bit of production and account, which was a great grounding here in the US. And then I moved between creative and media as part of the Havas Group. So I've always sort of had a foot in each side. And I think that that's been really beneficial to me as far as the things that I can see happening.

‍

Justin Levinson (05:00)

Do you, do you get nervous or did you get nervous on these presentations? How do you feel doing those?

‍

Bre Rossetti (05:05)

Do I get nervous presenting or do I get did I I've always been nervous presenting I guess because it's like you're vulnerable right you're like am I gonna say something smart but

‍

Justin Levinson (05:14)

Yeah. Well, I mean, guess when you're saying that you're trying to convince people that this is a, know, that this is something that they should be hip to. How does that feel going up there at that time, trying to get people on, on board?

‍

Bre Rossetti (05:27)

You know, it felt like it felt kind of great because everybody was skeptical, but kind of excited. ⁓ I love talking about new things with people because I think that they are always interested. And like my MO is if people are curious, it's going to be a great presentation or at least a great conversation. And that's how I feel like things started out in those early days. And even now in my career, people want to have conversations about things they don't know about. Like you, never want to, you're, you're usually presenting to people that are smarter than you.

And you don't want to present to people that are smarter than you about things that they already know about. Like that's a bad situation. So bringing in new things and new ideas and debating them is like a sweet spot.

‍

Justin Levinson (06:05)

Yeah, that's really cool. Well, I'd love to fast forward a little bit. And for the folks who, you know, who don't know, maybe you could tell us a little bit like what, what your day to day is like and what you're doing today with Havoc Arnold.

‍

Bre Rossetti (06:17)

Yeah. So I'm chief strategy officer at Arnold here in Boston, and it's an amazing role. I'm really lucky because I'm a boomerang. And I, like I said, I worked at Arnold and then I went over to Havas Media and I still have one foot in Havas Media. I love it there. We have some amazing clients and we work as a village and work really in concert, but the Arnold business and Arnold team has.

grown really significantly and I'm really proud that I sort of can see the sort of reinvigoration, I guess, of the early days when I was here and the energy that we felt as we've sort of had this momentum. So my day to day, no day is the same. I know that everybody like says that in a cheesy way, but it's really genuinely true because I have the benefit of working across so many different types of clients, which is why I love my job and I love agency. And so it keeps it really fresh. We've also expanded our client base and expanded our talent so much. So

I get to work with lots of different groups all the time. Sometimes those are integrated agency teams. Sometimes they are creatively oriented. Sometimes they're customer experience oriented. And we just got incredibly smart people here and it feels like a really magnetic place. So I spend most of my time with people and I spend most of my time, you know, asking questions and debating with people and figuring out how to, you know, clarify stories and figuring out what's, what's the best problem we can solve. And it's pretty great.

‍

Justin Levinson (07:39)

I love that. Yeah, definitely have some momentum. I had been doing some research before and had noticed you guys have won some FEs. I would be kind of interested to learn about some of the recent successes you guys have had.

‍

Bre Rossetti (07:52)

Yeah, we've been lucky enough to win quite a few FEs over the years. This past year, this current year was particularly good to us. And FEs is something, I mean, it's funny, a lot of creative agencies talk about their awards and Arnold does win a lot of them, but we are pretty humble about them. And we try to say to the agency and to our clients, that's not really the metric of success. We don't do this for the awards. They are very nice to have.

But FECs is one that we're particularly proud of because obviously it's based in efficacy, it's based in business success, and they are a real pain to write. It's truly like writing a thesis. We're just kicking off FECs in for next year now. But we've won a couple this year in particular for progressive insurance. We've actually won back-to-back sustained success on there, which means three years in a row of proving that efficacy. And then one for brilliantly boring our effort for PNC Bank.

which we just launched last year. I can dive into this a little bit if you want.

Justin Levinson (08:50)
Yeah, I'd love to hear about the campaigns and challenges and the wins within them as well. Obviously the FE has won, but yeah, go ahead, sorry.

‍

Bre Rossetti (08:57)

Yeah.

Yeah. So Progressive is a longstanding relationship that we've had. We have been on a journey with them from the number six insurer in the country to number two, really scratching at the heels of number one, which we're really proud of. And we've done that, you know, through lots of success in their business, but also lots of success from a creative standpoint. So Flo, who you might be familiar with, she has gotten lots of

accolades as the best icon sort of in advertising, but she's also been incredibly effective for the business. She's something she and the squad behind her is something that we've really invested in over time. And people really love her and some people really hate her, but nobody really feels neutral about her, which is something that you really want. Yeah. And the sort of the premise and the idea behind her and her squad is, you know, they are sort of a merry band of insurance lovers.

And they really help the medicine go down easy. When you think about insurance, it's not something that people really want to think about a lot. It's something that you deal with when something goes wrong or when you're switching. But she and her squad and all of the touch points that surround that, as well as obviously the progressive experience itself, make that a whole lot more palatable. And why I like working on it what I think the team does a really great job of is keeping it fresh. mean, she's been around for...

16 years, I think, and she's remained fresh in that period. And we've added people to her squad. have put her in different situations. At one point she was dating John Hamm. She's been rumored to date Pete Davidson on SNL. So she's been sort of out in culture at large. But what's been really interesting from a strategic perspective is when you're challenged with how do you create that volume? How do you keep something interesting from a campaign and communications perspective is you need.

Lots of new insights, lots of insights about human behavior. And there's things that I think we are challenged with every single day, just based on the volume of communications that we make that make that really interesting. The flip side of that is Dr. Rick, who you or some of your listeners might be familiar with, but he is the doctor who prevents you from turning into your parents. We've coined that as parenetomorphosis. And some of us know that the insight really rings true, that the moment you get your first house is the moment you start turning into your parents.

You saying the things, you're like, my God, I sound like my mom, I sound like my dad, I sound like my parents. And that has been a seven year long ⁓ campaign, which has been incredibly successful and really reached young homeowners and helped diversify the progressive lines of business in terms of what we can talk about. And again, it's just been something that's been really fun to work on, but also really fun to see take on its own life.

You know, we get so many messages from people saying, can this be a sitcom? Can this be a show? I see myself in this. Like it's, it's, it's really great to work on and it's, it's really fun to work on. which you can't say for a lot of, you know, seven year campaigns.

‍

Justin Levinson (11:59)

That's really, so people reach out to you if they want to put it and make this, take it further.

‍

Bre Rossetti (12:04)

Yeah, all the time. mean, look at YouTube comments, look at social listening. You can sort of see it for yourself. We actually, this past year, I think, in the last 12 months, I've lost track of time. all have. We did a, there was a segment with him on GMA, Good Morning America. And he went on and did a live segment sort of about grilling and barbecuing. And you should look it up. It's incredibly hilarious and funny. And it's something that our team helped script and work on. And he is an actor, did a wonderful job. And ⁓ you know, it's really...

rewarding to be able to create something that starts in advertising and artifice and has a runway in culture and is something that people want to play with and want to interact with and that importantly has great brand linkage and does a lot for the brand as well.

‍

Justin Levinson (12:50)

Yeah,

that's highly creative. It's really, it sounds really fun. So you.

‍

Bre Rossetti (12:53)

Yeah.

I can tell you about PNC too, which is- Yeah, yeah!

‍

Justin Levinson (12:58)

Go ahead. I'd be interested in that as well. Go for it. Thanks for tuning in, folks. This episode is brought to you by Coming Up Creative, a relationship first boutique creative recruitment agency. We disrupt the creative ecosystem by running sophisticated multi-channel campaigns with custom video and voice outreach that actually gets responses. We actively market the agencies and brands we represent to help them stand out to today's industry's top talent, all backed by real human connection.

and AI-powered targeting. If you're ready for a modern recruitment approach, visit www.comingupllc.com and get started today.

‍

Bre Rossetti (13:36)

Yeah. So PNC is a bank, a super regional bank, practically a national bank. And we started working with them in 2023. And we were lucky enough to have an amazing team on their side. And they kind of said, you we're a blank slate as far as positioning, as far as communications, but we want to really build a brand. And we started on a really accelerated journey.

because none of us ever have time to say, how can we differentiate this space? And when you look at finance as a whole, it's not always the most interesting. It's essential, it's great customer experiences, but from an advertising perspective, it's not always the thing that you sort of point to as the most creatively driven. But they had great ambitions and so didn't we. And we did a lot of stakeholder interviews, we talked to them and we realized that they had this real DNA and just secret sauce, but they needed some like main character energy.

And meanwhile, we looked at sort of like what was going on in the environment and there was all of this volatility, whether that was, you know, SVB collapsing at the time or just volatility in the marketplace overall. And what we realized is that, you know, in the face of all of that, there was a real flex and that flex was being boring. And so the campaign that we came up with, which I think explains itself as brilliantly boring since 1865, which kind of tells you everything that you want to know when it comes to finances.

when it comes to your money, you you want things to be buttoned up. You don't want things to be flashy and you don't want your bank to make bad choices. So we tapped into that, you know, amazing service that they have, the actual products that they have, that great legacy. And we were able to tell a story that is sort of juxtaposed with the sort of, you know, fintech flash in the pan type of innovation that you might think that people want. And it's been really successful for them. And I think that we've...

per the FE, shown great results and it's an integrated account. It's something that we work on from a media perspective as well. So we can think about how that applies to all of the great sponsorship work that they do. There's some great, great content that we did with Paul Skeens, know, how you prep as an athlete and how often. That's actually quite boring, but all of that preparation is the thing that makes you great. And that really is the essence of PNC. So lots of variety.

‍

Justin Levinson (15:52)

What's, what's it like in the think tank? Like when, you know, when they come to you with a, with a clean slate and they're like, what do you got? Like, what, what does that, what does that look like?

‍

Bre Rossetti (16:01)

Well, I think, you it looks like a lot of like excitement. Like that's what I kind of love about this place. You can either stare at a blank page and be like, this is terrifying. Where do I start? But when, when PNC came to us, hey, it helps that we had, you know, amazing clients that were like, giddy up, let's go. Let's do something different. Let's be brave. And at Arnold, what we always say in our positioning is we want to make sure that you're

Smartest idea and your bravest idea are the same idea. We don't want to be an agency that's pushing you because we think something's great creatively, but it won't work for your business. So I think we have a lot of trust with our clients, regardless of who they are. And we had that with PNC. it felt like a new day. It felt like kind of an awesome challenge, and it felt like a great opportunity. Like I said, we were on a really quick timeline because we had to get into market. We engaged their entire organization, and they were so open.

When I say we did stakeholder interviews, the CEO, Bill Demchak, was one of them and he was part of that process. And when he launched Brilliantly Boring to 60,000 people at PNC, know, associate stakeholders, employees, he stood on stage with a t-shirt and he had a water bottle that had a thousand words printed on it to explain what boring was. You we at one point said, we're gonna get you an ice cream truck that only serves vanilla ice cream. Do you know what I mean? Saw the potential in it and...

And what I think is really cool for us and for them is that think tank didn't just say like, how do we go and make ads? They said, how does this inform our business, our product strategy? How do we talk to our associates about this? How do we talk about this in our branches? You know, how does this come to life overall and how do we really embrace this? So that was something that I think we're really proud of.

‍

Justin Levinson (17:48)

Yeah. Are these clients, are they coming like PNC, it just comes in, they came inbound to you, knew you guys were an expert and could do this or were they trying to pitch work with other agencies as well? was it sort of like you guys, you're the ones for this job.

‍

Bre Rossetti (18:02)

There was a pitch process and there was a consultant that helped them that they had a relationship on. And I think, you know, great consultants are like great matchmakers. I think at some points there were other agencies involved, but ultimately we had great chemistry and our ambitions were aligned. So like I said, you know, we work with them on a media ⁓ basis. They have other agencies ⁓ for some Hispanic work. They do lots of work.

with consultants and we welcome that. work really well on the IAT, but when it comes to brand strategy and creative work, I think we're the tip of the spear on that. we have a really great relationship with all the agencies involved, I think because the clients facilitate that. And I think, you know, we're lucky because Havas's strategy has always been this together strategy and it's been about physical villages. And sometimes now those are more virtual.

post pandemic, have more technology, but we put all of our agencies in the same building. I'm here in Boston, yes, with Arnold, but with our media group, with our EDGE, our more direct response group, with Clay, our entertainment group, with obviously the media agency. And so I think that we have a lot of empathy for other skills and other groups and how to work with them. We work really well together, but we are also trained to work really well with other creative professionals because we all have like the same ambition and we kind of know how those skills can complement each other.

‍

Justin Levinson (19:26)

Yeah, interesting. so you guys are working virtually most of the time. Are you guys coming in office as well? Or how does-

‍

Bre Rossetti (19:31)

Yeah,

we're in the office. I'm in here today. I'm in a room so you can't see, but it's pretty busy out there. I was lucky to get a room. It's a little easier on Fridays, but we have villages all over and our clients, for the most part, some of them, but for the most part, they're not based in Boston. So we utilize technology for that. And I'm pretty grateful that we do. I do travel a lot myself. So it's funny, I think back like before COVID times, and I remember being like, I'm traveling, we can't have that meeting. And now it's like, all right, like I'll just hop on a Zoom, we'll get things going. So I think we...

We do more, we're, you know, it's kind of hard. Like we're in the office and we appreciate being in the office, but equally, sometimes you have to be on the road. And we moved into a new office here earlier this year in Boston, which has been like a godsend because sometimes in our old office, like it just wasn't built for virtual work in the same way. And you had more physical office space. Now we have more open collaborative space and we have more creative space and we have.

you know, technology that I don't need to call IT. I can press a button and figure out how to get everybody up on screen. I mean, I can't, I often make mistakes about that and have to call IT, but other people seem to know what they're doing.

‍

Justin Levinson (20:42)

Yeah, no, that's interesting. Yeah, I'm always interested to see how different agencies are structured and if they're working virtually or collaboratively in office and how that, because it's changed a lot in a lot of different agencies where it was very remote for a while. And now they've been like, well, you got to come back a couple of days. And then some are like, you got to come back in every day. so it's been it's been a, a big.

‍

Bre Rossetti (21:04)

I think that we're like, we're kind of in the middle ground and I'm grateful for it because it's expanded like our talent pool. You know, we have great people on our team that can now be at clients and be really efficient or be in other markets and go into other offices. And I think that we've like figured out part, you can figure out how to work. You can figure out how to set up a Zoom, but like, how do you figure out how to like, you know, export the culture a little bit and make people feel really included and.

I think that that's taken time, but I think that we're, I think that we do it pretty well. And, you know, we, make time for the whole group to be together, even if you're based in New York or based in Chicago and having this, you know, beautiful new office, I think is also like an attraction for people who are in other markets that want to come here. And that's been really helpful.

‍

Justin Levinson (21:49)

Do you do a lot of the hiring on your team?

‍

Bre Rossetti (21:52)

Yeah, I mean, I'm very lucky to have great people that hire great people, but equally, like, I mean, we're an agency, you know, our people are our product. So making sure that we have great talent and great talent that has great chemistry and that want to be here. And I think that, you know, my team, my strategy team, but also like my agency team are amazing, but it's important to make sure that, you know, they know what.

our ethos is, what we're focused on, what makes us great, and that they want to be a part of that. So I spend a lot of time with our new hires.

‍

Justin Levinson (22:26)

Yeah, what do you look for in like upcoming talent? You know, what's the standout to you?

‍

Bre Rossetti (22:33)

The number one thing I look for is curiosity. I think that I say this to my kids actually, I don't mean to draw that parallel. Obviously the people work, they work for me and not my children. It's just the most important thing I think is like asking good questions. Like my kids come home from school and I try to train myself not to say like, what did you learn? I try to say, did you ask a good question today? And even my three-year-old comes to me now and she's like, I asked a medium question today and my six-year-old's like, I asked a good one.

But I look for that in talent too, especially on the agency side. We have to be sponges and we have to learn things so quickly and you have to learn why people want the things they do. There's almost always a question behind the question. And if you are willing to get to that, we're way better at our jobs. Figuring out what the problem is to solve is the number one thing, I think, in strategy. So that's the biggest thing that I look for. And then also, I think we are a very creatively oriented agency. I think that, you know,

There are some agencies that, you know, want to have good meetings. We want to make good work. And it's like a small distinct. I want to have good meetings, by the way. I don't really want to have bad meetings, but like, I want people to be like, Hey, let's debate. Let's think about this. I'm not a full order taker, but also I want to understand where you're coming from. So I think that that's really important. The other thing is like that I say to my team and I say to talent, like, you know, especially, um, in a world of strategy, we make like a lot of.

a lot of decks, a lot of docs, lot of, you know, PowerPoints and InDesigns and all of those things. And you could be pretty quickly and easily fooled that like that's your work product and that's your job. Like that's a means to an end. So I think that that's really important. People who are curious, people who are not focused just on right here, but can see ultimately what we're driving to and be flexible in terms of, you know, their point of view and what we're.

all collaborating and driving too. then, I mean, just like everybody says it, but like no jerks, like for real. We spend a lot of time together, a lot of time talking and debating. And if, you know, people don't have chemistry or they are unwilling to be like good humans, that can be really hard.

‍

Justin Levinson (24:40)

Yeah, I imagine you have to debate with kindness where it's like, know, might be, you might believe in an idea, but you've got to be willing to be collaborative and, and not a jerk.

‍

Bre Rossetti (24:53)

Yeah, and especially with like, I mean, on the agency side, know, we're like, in some ways, we're further down the food chain in terms of the decision making, right? You're working for clients and sometimes you don't know the pressures or the things that are going on internally. So people who are able to like grapple with that and kind of understand and equally, I mean, when you're putting ideas on the table, it's not, it's not a spreadsheet, you know, it's, it's, can feel personal. So I think and like,

The whole point of this is to like what we do. Like we spend more than a normal amount of hours doing it and thinking about it. So I think that's important.

‍

Justin Levinson (25:28)

Yeah, no, that's great. I'd also like to just kind of ask you a little bit about how you've seen a technology changing within the industry. I'd be curious to understand what maybe your tech stack, I can't even say the word, your tech stack is looking like these days and what tools are you find the most collaborative for your team that you're getting the most bang for your buck?

‍

Bre Rossetti (25:48)

Yeah, I mean, this is the biggest thing in our industry right now. And I feel really lucky that I have had visibility across different agency groups, specifically media and creative, because I think I have a really good understanding of the importance of technology and the importance of MarTech. And I feel really grateful right now that Havas overall has made, I think, you know, our chairman and CEO, Janik, announced 400 million investment into AI and into Havas.

of AASA's platform converged, which basically gives us all common access to a variety of different data sources that we can take through from intelligence all the way to, you know, designing activation and measurement, which is common across the group. And the heart of that data is audience data. You know, like it's, it's funny. I was, I was on a panel recently and they said like, what's gotten harder about using data recently and what's gotten easier. And to me, the answer was super clear. Like what's gotten easier is the what.

Like we all have these like digital exhaust trails. There's so many, you know, clicks and pictures and orders and engagements and social posts. And there's, there's a lot available to us, but figuring out the why and the signal through the noise has gotten way harder. And that's the skill that we have. So converged helps us to see that, helps us democratize that across creative groups and media groups and measurement groups who all, you know, look at things differently.

But so that's a bit that's a big piece of what we use. Like, how do we get insight into behaviors and how we extract from that meaningful insights that can, in our case, drive towards creative or drive towards media strategies that are differentiating. But practically speaking as well, when it comes to, you know, AI across the board, I think that my advice to my team and what we talk about all the time is like getting our fingers dirty and getting in there, especially when we're talking about like upstream intelligence. And I think everybody has there. We all have this like

strange relationship, right? Like, is it taking our jobs? Is it smart? Is it not? But like, it's not going anywhere. Like, we're on this train, like, let's go. And I think that we've found ways that it's making us more collaborative, it's making us smarter. It, you know, is, it is the thing that can do the what, but not the so what for us right now. There are things that I think we talk about though, that are like more nuanced, right? Like,

When I was growing up in this industry, one of the ways you sort of like cut your teeth is you did that like really laborious competitive review where you like pull everything and you look at it and you document your stuff and it takes you days and you come in, you finally have your insights. And now, you you can do that in like, you know, five minutes as far as aggregating things, and then you can have a bad version, you can make it better. But that's like a real skill and I'm scared that people will lose that skill. I, we spend a lot of time like

talking about things and co-creating and training things and debating like why we think that something's important as an insight. Because I think that we have to find ways to help people develop that critical thinking approach, if not like the manual approach. And I'm pretty passionate about like making sure that we don't lose that while we're going through this period of transformation and change. Because the actual outputs, the actual tasks will and should change. Like remember I started, you my job was to fax things and that's gone and thank God it's gone.

Yeah. But like the critical thinking and the skills and knowing where you fit into the overall puzzle of marketing communications is still really important. So we put a lot of emphasis on that as well as just training on the tools. Cause if we're just training on the tools, like we're not training the thinking and the part that I think makes Javas and Arnold so unique.

‍

Justin Levinson (29:21)

Yeah, that's, that's fascinating. Do you think that sometimes all of like the data and all, all this stuff we have access to can sometimes make the, can weaken the creative if it's sort of like we're all ready to a grid?

‍

Bre Rossetti (29:32)

A hundred percent.

Yeah, that's what I mean. Like the signal through the noise, that, like there's so much more, you know, some, sometimes you, you go to presentations, ⁓ you know, internally or externally, and it's like, here's a lot of data. And you're like, that's amazing. And, and truthfully, like we're still at this point, at least, you know, marketing to people, ⁓ whether they're customers or consumers or, or B2B individuals, for the most part, they're people are not yet marketing to agents. So.

I, you know, we, we, we spend a disproportionate amount of time talking to people. One of the things that I'm, really proud of at Arnold and we have like some amazing cultural strategists here. We go and we, spend a lot of time, you know, doing primary research. I think everyone does. I hope everyone does. Maybe it's a little bit of a lost art, like talking to people and just understanding how they think and how they feel. But we talk to cultural experts, which is people who influence the other people, whether that's matchmakers or pastors or doctors.

you know, not breaking any HIPAA laws or anything. But people who like see these sort of, you know, the psychology of the consumers or the target audiences that we're talking about. And I find that like really rewarding and really fascinating. You know, I think that like you can't just have one skill or the other. It's not credible to go into a boardroom today and be like, talked to six people or I was behind a mirror and these six people said this thing because I gave them a $25 gift card. Like that doesn't hold water.

But equally, if you go in and you're like, we have this data and we crunched it and the spreadsheet says yes, that's not lightening in a bottle. It can push you towards perhaps mediocrity. And that's why think we still have people and that's why I think creativity still matters. And our job, particularly when I talk about Arnold's strategy, is our work product is not the brief, it's the creative work.

The brief is a tool and the thing there is like what will spark that creativity, what will spark that idea, but we'll get you to that brilliantly boring. And sometimes it is the conversations with people and sometimes it is looking at all the data and sometimes it's saying, wow, the data, we think the data is wrong. What if we went against it?

‍

Justin Levinson (31:42)

Yeah. Yeah, that's really interesting. Yeah. I do a lot of work in the recruiting industry and so I really value speaking with real human beings as well too and kind of, you know, understanding how they think, not just, you know, somebody's resume or where you think they should go. So yeah, I really value like the, you know, an AI human that sort of, you know,

‍

Bre Rossetti (32:07)

The checks and balances and like the iteration. Yeah.

‍

Justin Levinson (32:09)

Close to just like AI, AI, AI, you know, sort of nice to be part of that. ⁓ Outside of this creative space, it's kind of, because I know we're getting to our last, you know, five minutes or so. I was kind of curious if you could tell us a little bit about yourself personally, like what do you like to do outside of, ⁓ you know, the agency world?

‍

Bre Rossetti (32:30)

Yeah, well, I mean, I love to travel. feel like my travel has changed so significantly in these last few years because I have two young kids, three and six. Actually, Harlow just turned four. So, you know, I used to take these amazing trips and climb Kilimanjaro and, you know, do three weeks and go to Dubai and go to Thailand. And my most recent trip was to the Nickelodeon Resort, Punta Cana. So please don't judge me. I promise to come back to my real self. I have big plans to take them on an African safari soon.

but just not yet. So I do really enjoy my kids and being a mom, they humble me incredibly every day, especially my daughter. And I have ⁓ a ⁓ 14 year old Puggle, he's 14 going on like three. So I'm a big and avid dog lover. And in a surprise to me, living pretty far out of the city and live a pretty like rural kind of life. I love skiing.

I like doing outdoorsy things, which when I say it's a surprise to me, like on paper, I should be, you know, dink living in a city in a high rise drinking wine. But somehow that doesn't mirror my actual weekend life. I'm like at soccer games and skiing with like a three and a six year old. But I am a foodie, but I can't cook. So I like eating people's food, but I really don't enjoy cooking it. I like picking it or ordering it. And what else? I don't, I guess I'm kind of pedestrian in my life.

‍

Justin Levinson (33:51)

I

can really relate. also have a three and a six year old, two girls. So my lifestyle is a little bit less rock and roll than it used to be. Right. Someday it'll come back and traveling is a really difficult thing. You know, we recently tried to, we did a trip to Florida as well. we thought, cause we're actually based in Vermont, that if we, instead of flying out of the BTV airport, which will get you like, you have to go to New York, you have to do a

‍

Bre Rossetti (33:58)

Totally. Someday it'll come back.

‍

Justin Levinson (34:20)

You can't get a direct flight from Vermont pretty much anywhere, which is kind of pain. We thought, we'd take a ferry to New York and then we would take a direct flight from New York to Florida. That way we would avoid the layover. It turns out that was like the worst idea ever. We had a two hour delay in upstate New York. And I was just like, it was worse than a layover would have been probably in anywhere in America.

Yeah, it's I haven't cracked the code on the traveling yet, but I feel like, you know, we just bought a family van. So maybe we'll.

‍

Bre Rossetti (34:56)

Oh God, yeah, you're in it. Two girls is a lot. My girl is like, I mean, she's like, she just turned four. I keep saying she's three. She's like four going on 24. My like boy is like chill. Like I'm like, I'm like Harrison, you can't do that. He's like, okay. She's like, she's like a force and I'm sure it will be wonderful. But like, you know, I feel like I go through some sort of like world war two by the time I get to the office. I'm like the lives I have lived.

the things I have done to negotiate whatever mismatched outfit with sparkles and princesses that she has insisted on wearing.

‍

Justin Levinson (35:31)

like, yeah, I know I can get, mean, it's just like hard to pick out a pair of socks. I'm just like, Aggie, these socks fit you. Like we

‍

Bre Rossetti (35:38)

We don't even wear socks. I'm like, until it snows, that's I don't care. We've given up on socks entirely.

‍

Justin Levinson (35:44)

Yeah, we're living similar lives. But it's, know, I love it. I love having two girls. It's been great. You know, it's interesting that you have like your son is calm. When I see a lot of the kids at school, I'm always like, man, like the boys are like, if they have any excuse, like pick up a stick and like use it as a weapon.

‍

Bre Rossetti (36:00)

He

does do that. He does have like boy energy. Like he needs to like run around. But once you run around, it's like, he's more like, he's more predictable is what I would say. Like she's like, the emotional sort of component is fascinating. And part of it I've heard from people might be a first child, second child. Like he's just like more predictable, know, does things that obeys the rules. She's like, what rules? What are you talking about?

‍

Justin Levinson (36:25)

I love

that spirit though, that's great.

‍

Bre Rossetti (36:28)

Yeah, exactly. But like, you know, it's funny, I am, I wasn't somebody who was totally sure that I would have kids. And I guess everyone, it's so cheesy, everyone says it, like, can't imagine my life without them. But they really do, like, change your perspective and change your life. And they really do kind of humble you.

‍

Justin Levinson (36:44)

I just love when they are telling me things like my oldest was telling me something about maple sugaring that she had heard about and she was describing it to me and I was like, I was like, I don't think that's right. And then I looked it up and I was like, she actually is right. She she's smarter than I am. ⁓

‍

Bre Rossetti (37:01)

My son's eating a banana. He's like, do you know what bananas are, Barry? I'm like, quick Google. I'm like, yes, I did know that. Yes. And my son has this reading the encyclopedia. Like, who knows? It's like a kid's encyclopedia. And we're going through, and we're going through like the planets. And I'm like, eight planets. And he's like, oh, when you were little, Pluto was a planet, wasn't it? And I'm like, what? And he's like, yeah, I heard about that. I'm like, how?

‍

Justin Levinson (37:24)

That's hilarious. And true. did have to, we did, until it was taken off of our, it was canceled. Yeah. But cool, Bri, I really appreciate you being on and telling us about all the interesting stuff you've been working on and offering value to the community and telling us a little bit about yourself. And yeah, I just really appreciate you being on here and having this conversation. I hope we can maybe have a part two at some point.

‍

Bre Rossetti (37:30)

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Awesome. Thank you so much. All right. You too. Bye. Bye.

‍

Justin Levinson (37:47)

for you. care. Bye.